Australian Politics Forum - high price tag for nuclear

Baronvonrort

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #75 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:43pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 7:29pm:

[size=12]The pro-nuclear lobby will never accept any alternative that carries the "sustainable" or "renewable" tag.

We also have a lot of "not in my backyard" determination - from state governments, to shire councils

We need something for when the sun isn't shining and there is no wind as renewables work for less than 40% of the time.

If you want to eliminate coal and gas that only leaves Hydro or nuclear for clean energy.

The renewable mob are the biggest bunch of NIMBYs

The best spots for wind in Sydney are North South and Middle Head, Belrose Terry hills and Barrenjoey head up near Palm beach. Plenty of vacant land the power source will be close so minimal transmission losses. The get the summer sea breeze which happens on the coast and doesn't go inland. Not as far for workers to travel to maintain them.

What do the TEAL NIMBYs say?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49062 At my desk.	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #76 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:45pm Quote: We need something for when the sun isn't shining Ever heard of a battery? Both solar with storage and wind with storage are cheaper than nuclear.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #77 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:48pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Private enterprise (The Market) equates pouring money into nuclear power, in this country, with pouring billions into a bottomless pit.

I would say no private investors have looked at nuclear power here for the simple fact it's currently not legal.

Bill Gates and Dick Smith talk highly about nuclear power the countries that have it see the only way for net zero is to increase nuclear capacity.

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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #78 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:57pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:48pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Private enterprise (The Market) equates pouring money into nuclear power, in this country, with pouring billions into a bottomless pit.

I would say no private investors have looked at nuclear power here for the simple fact it's currently not legal.

Bill Gates and Dick Smith talk highly about nuclear power the countries that have it see the only way for net zero is to increase nuclear capacity.

They've looked at it. They see the coalition doing backflips every few weeks, whereas they need several decades of stable government policy to make the risk pay off.

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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #79 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:03pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:54pm:

yes - I feel that nuclear power stations will just be a never ending money pit.

It will be hard to find qualified people to run the reactors safely.

We'll have to import them at high cost -
who would want to live near say the old Hazelwood power station in the Latrobe valley?

Apart from making Yellowcake we have no nuclear industry here.

We don't make fuel rods either.

Do we even have university courses for nuclear power station engineers?

Maybe we'd have to sponsor people to go overseas to learn about it?

You are a complete moron.

Renewables are already proving Solar & Wind is a never ending money pit.

Why would it be hard to find qualified people to run it? It's just the energy source difference - nuclear still heats water, that makes steam, that drives turbines. We have shyte loads of qualified people to do that.

Why would it be at high cost to import qualified people in reactor supervision? People all over the world are busting a hump to come here. People are already living near old power stations.

Originally back in the day we had no industry here... how did our car, steel, coal fired power station, train manufacturing, bridge building, agricultural equipment, building industries get started?

We don't need to make fuel rods.

How hard is it to make University courses applicable to any requirement? .... global knowledge.

Maybe you should just go overseas ... idiot. Roll Eyes

Moderators - Gnads called me a moron and an idiot.

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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #80 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:17pm

Gnads,
Quote:

Why would it be hard to find qualified people to run it? It's just the energy source difference - nuclear still heats water, that makes steam, that drives turbines. We have shyte loads of qualified people to do that.

Why would it be at high cost to import qualified people in reactor supervision? People all over the world are busting a hump to come here. People are already living near old power stations.

Originally back in the day we had no industry here... how did our car, steel, coal fired power station, train manufacturing, bridge building, agricultural equipment, building industries get started?

We don't need to make fuel rods.

How hard is it to make University courses applicable to any requirement? .... global knowledge.

Running a nuclear power station is a hell of a lot different to
running a coal fired power station.

No one is busting to go and live in the horrible Latrobe valley.

It would be a lot better if we had some kind of nuclear industry here.
We export Yellowcake and that's it.
Australia has almost zero experience with nuclear technology.

It could be very difficult to organise nuclear technology engineering degrees here.
We might be good at making bridges and roads but nuclear is a whole new ball game.
We might only get the university lecturers that John West rejected from overseas.

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Dnarever

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #81 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:33pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:03pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:54pm:

yes - I feel that nuclear power stations will just be a never ending money pit.

It will be hard to find qualified people to run the reactors safely.

We'll have to import them at high cost -
who would want to live near say the old Hazelwood power station in the Latrobe valley?

Apart from making Yellowcake we have no nuclear industry here.

We don't make fuel rods either.

Do we even have university courses for nuclear power station engineers?

Maybe we'd have to sponsor people to go overseas to learn about it?

You are a complete moron.

Renewables are already proving Solar & Wind is a never ending money pit.

Why would it be hard to find qualified people to run it? It's just the energy source difference - nuclear still heats water, that makes steam, that drives turbines. We have shyte loads of qualified people to do that.

Why would it be at high cost to import qualified people in reactor supervision? People all over the world are busting a hump to come here. People are already living near old power stations.

Originally back in the day we had no industry here... how did our car, steel, coal fired power station, train manufacturing, bridge building, agricultural equipment, building industries get started?

We don't need to make fuel rods.

How hard is it to make University courses applicable to any requirement? .... global knowledge.

Maybe you should just go overseas ... idiot. Roll Eyes

Moderators - Gnads called me a moron and an idiot.

That isn't very nice is it Bobby?

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18492 Gender:	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #82 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:44pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:17pm: It could be very difficult to organise nuclear technology engineering degrees here. https://www.unsw.edu.au/engineering/study-with-us/study-areas/nuclear-engineerin... Probably a better career choice compared to gender studies or arts
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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #83 - Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:47pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:17pm:

It could be very difficult to organise nuclear technology engineering degrees here.

https://www.unsw.edu.au/engineering/study-with-us/study-areas/nuclear-engineerin...

Probably a better career choice compared to gender studies or arts

That's great - " Full scholarships available "

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #84 - Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:12am

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:39pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:35pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 6:01pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2024 at 7:42am:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 11:00pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 9:02pm:

lee wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 7:29pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 1^st, 2024 at 5:05pm:

It is actual cost trends from 2009 to 2022.

"The GenCost report notes that some of the challenges in trying to pin down an estimation for Australian nuclear plant costs based on overseas data includes:"

Correct. Australian costs are going to be much higher. Not just because the price is rapidly rising and they could be 20 years away. But also because we have no local experience.

Australia has signed Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty which means we can get help with nuclear power.

That's wonderful. I'm sure there will be plenty of highly paid people offering their assistance.

We spent $100 million of taxpayers money on Geological reports for Snowy Hydro 2 how did that work out?

It was supposed to cost $2 billion operational in 2021 it has cost $12 billion with current estimate at 2028-2029 before it works. I wonder how many billions extra it will cost over the next 4-5 years.

Is that why you want to waste even more taxpayer money?

How much taxpayer money have we wasted already with renewables?

My preference would be remove all taxpayer subsidies and let the market work out what is best.

If renewables are cheaper as some claim they don't need subsidies.

Warren didn't get to be worth over $200 billion from wasting money

I don't support subsidies either. You are right they are a waste of money. You have the coalition to thank for that. They got rid of the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions and left us with the most expensive options.

Gnads wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 5:59pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 1:57pm:

Quote:

So who are all the people building all these solar and wind farms?

Are you asking for their names?

You can build a wind farm one turbine at a time. You can build a solar farm one panel at a time. A lot of our solar is going in in the cities, one house at a time. You can get high school students doing it.

Are you being an asinine Tnuc?

I was making a point about the difficulty of mobilising a massive workforce in Australia. It obviously went right over your head, because you thought the same thing applied to wind turbines and solar panels. It doesn't.

No you weren't making a point ... you were just being your usual obtuse halfsmart sarcastic self.

Who said anything about a "massive" workforce??

You I believe.

And the work force required to build all the renewable projects on the go at present would be bigger than what's required to build a power station .... nuclear or not.

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29645 Gender:	Re: high price tag for nuclear Reply #85 - Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:15am freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:45pm: Quote: We need something for when the sun isn't shining Ever heard of a battery? Both solar with storage and wind with storage are cheaper than nuclear. The batteries are super expensive .... and at present they store but a few minutes of backup.
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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #86 - Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:19am

Bobby. wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 9:17pm:

Gnads,
Quote:

Why would it be hard to find qualified people to run it? It's just the energy source difference - nuclear still heats water, that makes steam, that drives turbines. We have shyte loads of qualified people to do that.

Why would it be at high cost to import qualified people in reactor supervision? People all over the world are busting a hump to come here. People are already living near old power stations.

Originally back in the day we had no industry here... how did our car, steel, coal fired power station, train manufacturing, bridge building, agricultural equipment, building industries get started?

We don't need to make fuel rods.

How hard is it to make University courses applicable to any requirement? .... global knowledge.

Running a nuclear power station is a hell of a lot different to
running a coal fired power station.

No one is busting to go and live in the horrible Latrobe valley.

It would be a lot better if we had some kind of nuclear industry here.
We export Yellowcake and that's it.
Australia has almost zero experience with nuclear technology.

It could be very difficult to organise nuclear technology engineering degrees here.
We might be good at making bridges and roads but nuclear is a whole new ball game.
We might only get the university lecturers that John West rejected from overseas.

A repeat of your rubbish.

Our medical system is full of overseas born & trained doctors and professionals.

Been to the doctor lately ... trust your GP or Specialist?????? Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #87 - Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:35am

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:15am:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:45pm:

Quote:

We need something for when the sun isn't shining

Ever heard of a battery? Both solar with storage and wind with storage are cheaper than nuclear.

The batteries are super expensive .... and at present they store but a few minutes of backup.

At present nuclear supplies 0% of our energy. Do you think that is also relevant?

Both solar with storage and wind power with storage are already cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear is getting more expensive, while renewables are getting cheaper.

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:12am:

No you weren't making a point ... you were just being your usual obtuse halfsmart sarcastic self.

Who said anything about a "massive" workforce??

You I believe.

And the work force required to build all the renewable projects on the go at present would be bigger than what's required to build a power station .... nuclear or not.

Just because the point went way over your head does not mean it was not there. The renewables workforce does not have to gather at the same location. Like I said, a lot of solar panels are being put in in the cities by high school students. Do you really think that is the same logistical problem as mobilising the workforce required to build a nuclear power station?

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« Last Edit: Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:41am by freediver »

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Gnads

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #88 - Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:51am

freediver wrote on Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:35am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:15am:

freediver wrote on Jul 3^rd, 2024 at 8:45pm:

Quote:

We need something for when the sun isn't shining

Ever heard of a battery? Both solar with storage and wind with storage are cheaper than nuclear.

The batteries are super expensive .... and at present they store but a few minutes of backup.

At present nuclear supplies 0% of our energy. Do you think that is also relevant?

Both solar with storage and wind power with storage are already cheaper than nuclear. Nuclear is getting more expensive, while renewables are getting cheaper.

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:12am:

No you weren't making a point ... you were just being your usual obtuse halfsmart sarcastic self.

Who said anything about a "massive" workforce??

You I believe.

And the work force required to build all the renewable projects on the go at present would be bigger than what's required to build a power station .... nuclear or not.

Just because the point went way over your head does not mean it was not there. The renewables workforce does not have to gather at the same location. Like I said, a lot of solar panels are being put in in the cities by high school students. Do you really think that is the same logistical problem as mobilising the workforce required to build a nuclear power station?

There was no point. It didn't go anywhere except around in the space between your ears.

We are not talkng about high school kids doing little solar projects on houses in the city.

We are talking the industrial scale wind & solar projects around the country.

And it would be far easier to mobilise a workforce for 1 power station in a coastal or near coastal location than for all the renewables projects going on regionally throughout the central and west of Vic, NSW & Qld alone without the other states and territories who are building them as well.

You're just deflecting.

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Bobby.

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Re: high price tag for nuclear
Reply #89 - Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:53am

Gnads wrote on Jul 4^th, 2024 at 8:19am:

A repeat of your rubbish.

Our medical system is full of overseas born & trained doctors and professionals.

Been to the doctor lately ... trust your GP or Specialist?????? Roll Eyes

Many medical specialists here have to spend 2 or more months overseas per year
just to keep up with changes in technology.
At least we have a base of medical knowledge here.
We have hardly any knowledge on nuclear power stations here.
Our only involvement is a tiny research and medical isotope reactor at Lucas Heights.
Places like the USA and Russia have been doing it for over 70 years.
Have you any idea about the different types of reactors?
You don't know what you're talking about.

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