Australian Politics Forum - the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions

lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17224 Gender:	Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions Reply #75 - Jul 11^th, 2024 at 4:55pm freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 8:10am: There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up. Wow. Increased fossil fuel use increases emissions. You heard it first here.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #76 - Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:01pm

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 3:49pm:

MattE wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 2:25pm:

The real question should be what is the most RELIABLE way to reduce GHG emissions. Because intermittent power sources add a lot of cost to the economy.

So you don't care about the cost?

Whether a mechanism is reliable or not depends entirely on the political will behind it. Building a wind turbine or nuclear power station by itself guarantees nothing.

Well today we we know Trump will "drill baby drill" (and the adoring crowd roared their approval).

Trump says the whole AGW-CO2 thing is a hoax, so he will reduce the cost of US electricity, by burning the world's largest resevoirs of fracked gas (in the US).

That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions.

[Twiggy should move to China: Xinjiang is already producing vast quantities of solar energy which is not yet connected to the grid - an ideal location for creating green hydrogen (assuming the technology for hydrogen- smelted green steel is at hand)].

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lee

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #77 - Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:44pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions.

And yet China's emissions are growing astronomically. That is some elimination. Grin

" In 2023 China’s carbon-dioxide emissions surged by 4.7%, to a record 12.6bn tonnes."

https://www.economist.com/china/2024/05/30/has-china-reached-peak-emissions

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thegreatdivide

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #78 - Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm

lee wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions.

And yet China's emissions are growing astronomically. That is some elimination. Grin

" In 2023 China’s carbon-dioxide emissions surged by 4.7%, to a record 12.6bn tonnes."

https://www.economist.com/china/2024/05/30/has-china-reached-peak-emissions

And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy

13 Mar 2024 — China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world.

Anyway, green China versus dirty US, by 2030?

Watch this space.....

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lee

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #79 - Jul 19^th, 2024 at 5:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market.

Yeah, But based on coal. Grin

Coal for solar manufacturing, coal for wind turbine manufacturing.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

Anyway, green China versus dirty US, by 2030?

And yet China's emissions have soared way past the US emissions. And yet the US is dirty? Roll Eyes

"U.S. net emissions declined 15 percent from 2005 to 2021 due to a range of market- and policy-related factors."

https://www.c2es.org/content/u-s-emissions/

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

Watch this space.....

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

Watch this space.....

Between your wears?

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« Last Edit: Jul 19^th, 2024 at 5:39pm by lee »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #80 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm

lee wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 5:34pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market.

Yeah, But based on coal. Grin

Low IQ?

Based on a rapidly increasing proportion of renewbales, even as coal emission inincrease until renwables exceed coal.

Coal for solar manufacturing, coal for wind turbine manufacturing.

Quote:

And yet China's emissions have soared way past the US emissions. And yet the US is dirty? Roll Eyes

Low IQ?

China has 4 times the poluation of the US; get back to us when the proportiio of renewables is grater than half and contiuing the increase in China, while the US under Trump goes backwards (increases fossil burning).

Quote:

"U.S. net emissions declined 15 percent from 2005 to 2021 due to a range of market- and policy-related factors."

Low IQ?
Policy related factors including increasing renewables.

Quote:

Between your wears?

No; between now and 2030, as Trump dumps the Paris aggreement emissons targets.

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lee

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #81 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 2:28pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Based on a rapidly increasing proportion of renewbales, even as coal emission inincrease until renwables exceed coal.

The renewables manufacturing need reliable power for their semiconductor, for their fibreglass manufacturing, for their glass manufacturing. And that will not come from renewable power. It is naive to believe so.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

China has 4 times the poluation of the US; get back to us when the proportiio of renewables is grater than half and contiuing the increase in China, while the US under Trump goes backwards (increases fossil burning).

Trump wasn't in power for much of that time. Another example of your false equivalence. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

Policy related factors including increasing renewables.

So Trump was responsible for increasing renewables. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

No; between now and 2030, as Trump dumps the Paris aggreement emissons targets.

And? Tell us how many countries are actually ACHIEVING their Paris targets. Grin

You do know trhat the Paris Targets are not legislated in the USA? That there is no compulsion for them to do so? That the Democrats have never taken it to the House or Senate to be legislated? Roll Eyes

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Gnads

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #82 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 6:08pm

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:00am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense.

What makes you think that?

Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute?

Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is?

Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again?

I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead.

something you never do .... ever.

Especially on your pet topic of GHG emissions, climate change alarmism & bs renewable capability.

Your phukhead mate Bowen was recently filmed saying he isn't anti nuclear it's just that renewables and nuclear are incompatible.

The biggest lie he has ever uttered ... considering most countries that have nuclear generation also use coal fired & renewables in the total mix to have reliable power supply.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #83 - Jul 20^th, 2024 at 6:11pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:17pm:

lee wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

That leaves China, with minimal fossil reserves and the world's most advanced PV industry, to show the world how to eliminate GHG emissions.

And yet China's emissions are growing astronomically. That is some elimination. Grin

" In 2023 China’s carbon-dioxide emissions surged by 4.7%, to a record 12.6bn tonnes."

https://www.economist.com/china/2024/05/30/has-china-reached-peak-emissions

And it's renewables sector is also gowing at the fastest rate of any country - just shows the growth in demand and size of China's energy market.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-renewable-energy

13 Mar 2024 — China has achieved stunning growth in its installed renewable capacity over the last two decades, far outpacing the rest of the world.

Anyway, green China versus dirty US, by 2030?

Watch this space.....

Yes ... manufacturing it ... & exporting it overseas to gullible western countries like ours.

And they also get a slice of building/erecting it here.

Roll Eyes

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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freediver

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #84 - Jul 21^st, 2024 at 7:39am

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 4:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 8:10am:

There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up.

Wow. Increased fossil fuel use increases emissions. You heard it first here. Grin

Are you always this confused? Or only when you are being a cheerleader for the coalition?

Gnads wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 6:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:00am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense.

What makes you think that?

Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute?

Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is?

Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again?

I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead.

something you never do .... ever.

Are you still confused about what the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions is?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #85 - Jul 21^st, 2024 at 10:00am

Bobby. wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:19am:

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:05am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:02am:

It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change

And look where we are now.

And you have Bobby as the moderator for Environment, a climate change denialist.

Do you feel any impetus at all to support informed and earnest discussion on this topic?

No I'm not but you are a climate change alarmist.

It's funny that you say it like it's a bad thing.

But the "alarm" went off years ago.

The ship has sailed, thanks to people like you.

Too bad you won't be around to face the consequences of your actions.

Wouldn't that be nice.

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Gnads

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #86 - Jul 21^st, 2024 at 11:35am

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2024 at 7:39am:

lee wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 4:55pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 8:10am:

There are plenty of countries, including Australia, that are building lots of renewables, or even lots of nuclear power, and their emissions are going up.

Wow. Increased fossil fuel use increases emissions. You heard it first here. Grin

Are you always this confused? Or only when you are being a cheerleader for the coalition?

Gnads wrote on Jul 20^th, 2024 at 6:08pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:10am:

freediver wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 11:00am:

Gnads wrote on Jul 11^th, 2024 at 10:44am:

freediver wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:44pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 8^th, 2024 at 12:14pm:

A carbon tax & carbon offsets is just smoke & mirrors nonsense.

What makes you think that?

Charging a fee/tax that allows someone to continue to pollute?

Are you trying to say something Gnads, or are you asking me what a tax is?

Are you just being an obtuse tnuc again?

I am trying to get you to actually say what you are saying, rather than expecting everyone else to guess. My guess is that you are reluctant actually say it, because you know it is BS. So you tapdance instead.

something you never do .... ever.

Are you still confused about what the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions is?

No ....your version is a total con job.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48816 At my desk.	Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions Reply #87 - Jul 21^st, 2024 at 11:37am Quote: No ....your version is a total con job. How do you know what my version is, if I never say what I am saying?
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lee

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #88 - Jul 21^st, 2024 at 12:51pm

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2024 at 7:39am:

Are you always this confused? Or only when you are being a cheerleader for the coalition?

Emissions are going up because of increased fossil fuel use.

https://ourworldindata.org/fossil-fuels

https://www.iaea.org/sites/default/files/nuclear-energy-compared-11.jpg

Current nuclear is too small to reduce emissions. Talk about you having magical thinking. Roll Eyes

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Jovial Monk

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Re: the cheapest way to reduce GHG emissions
Reply #89 - Jul 21^st, 2024 at 2:12pm

mothra wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:05am:

freediver wrote on Jun 29^th, 2024 at 9:02am:

It's from 1997. I published it here in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economists%27_Statement_on_Climate_Change

And look where we are now.

And you have Booby as the moderator for Environment, a climate change denialist.

Do you feel any impetus at all to support informed and earnest discussion on this topic?

But but but Booby is all about intellectual discussion in the Environment toilet errrrr MRB!

Now what this intellectual discussion is to be about I am not sure, seems to be about cats and dogs which is odd considering the little puke’s board is called Environment. It is as if the Thwaites glacier isn’t about to let go and slide into the sea, as if plastics esp microplastics aren’t everywhere including the human scrotum, as if species aren’t going extinct at a rapid rate of knots!

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« Last Edit: Jul 21^st, 2024 at 2:56pm by Jovial Monk »

Get the vaxx! 💉💉

If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings.

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