Australian Politics Forum - Fatima Payman is a good moslem

Gnads

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #315 - Jul 26^th, 2024 at 2:07pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 4:14pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 1:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 21^st, 2024 at 12:15pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 21^st, 2024 at 11:52am:

Quote:

You ignored the fact: Jews in Palestina welcomed Arabs

That's not a fact. It is propaganda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(636%E2%80%93637)

Depending on the sources, in either 637 or in 638, Jerusalem was officially surrendered to the caliph.[24]

For the Jewish community this marked the end of nearly 500 years of Roman rule and oppression. Umar permitted the Jews to once again reside within the city of Jerusalem itself.

Quote:

You have seen what the Jews in Palestine really think of Muslim rule.

You are confused as usual; Jews jumped at the UN partition plans in 1947, of course - just as they welcomed the end of Christian Byzantine rule in 637/8, as noted above.

Quote:

What we do know for a fact is that Muhammad slaughtered Jews as soon as he had enough power to do so, and put plenty of anti Jewish propaganda in the Quran to justify it.

Only those Jews who rejected Islam....

You do realise how stupid that statement is?

It also proves FD point about Muslims slaughtering Jews.

Your low IQ again: most religions including the Jewish Bible and the Koran demand fealty to their revealed 'god'.

The Jewish Bible & the Christian Bible do not call for the death of apostates, striking down infidels or using Taqiyya toward & demanding Jizyah(taxes) from non Muslims & as the Quran & it's Hadiths do.

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Gnads

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #316 - Jul 26^th, 2024 at 2:11pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 24^th, 2024 at 11:06am:

Frank wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 4:20pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 4:09pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 1:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:39pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:20pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 12:55am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:27pm:

Rape and pillage is not a "fundamentalist" interpretation of Islam. It is the mainstream interpretation of Islam, because that is what Muhammad did. He used the religion to justify warmongering and sexual slavery.

See Aquarius' post #237, for the correct narrative re 'violence against infidels'.

Yeah - but it's like Muslim native title ... it's all open to interpretation,

The point is Payman is not into "rape and pillage" - as blindly asserted by FD (who says Muslims rape and pillage Jews as a matter of course, nothing to do with a fundamentalist reading of the Koran).

Quote:

Why does Israel have such a problem with them?

Because the UN stuffed-up its recognition of Israel, without recognizing Palestine at the same time, as per the UN's own resolution 181, in 1947.

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Would that such integrity were still the norm in this day and age..... look at what we've got to offer ..... Jesus wept....

Note that the US and Canada refused entry for a ship carrying Jewish refugees from Germany, in 1938.

Now the US is oppressing Palestinians by refusing to recognize Palestine, and end the illegal Israeli occupation of the WB.

As for your 'native title' obsession, I explained the error which blind, unreasoning attachment to individual cultures leads to - which you brushed aside as 'political rhetoric', thereby confirming your mental incompetence.

If the UN voted to partition Muslim land to create a Jewish state, justice demands it should also have created the other state (in the Partition) for Muslims.

So supporting those who are into rape and pillage is not being into rape and pillage yourself..... a fine line...

Oh.. graps - I will persist with exposing your errors despite your mental incomptence:

So: extremists (fundamentalists) who rape and pillage, believing they are defending the One True God by driving Jews out of Muslim Palestine; versus myself who is not into rape and pillage - where is the "fine line"?

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It wasn't Muslim land other than by invasion...

In the 7th century, when the locals suffering under oppressive Byzantine sovereignty welcomed the Muslims Arabs.

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Independent Gaza is just the worst example of what they've done to themselves...

After the stuffed-up UN recognition of Israel in 1947; Gaza should have been/was intended to be part of the Palestinian state.

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If Payman doesn't like it - there's the door.... she's had her chance and by the same behaviour, has blown it for herself and all the others now.

Payman and 150 member nations of the UN recognize Palestine; Oz and the US don't.

Why not?

Yeah ... & how many of them are undemocratic Muslim States?

The UN is stacked with them. Anti Israel & Jews.

Plus Norway, Spain and Ireland...

Quote:

The Israelis have every right to be where they are.

No they don't, Israel only has a "Right" to exist alongside a Palestinian state, as per the UN Partition Plan.

So why didn't the Palestinians declare a state in 1948, like the Jews did, as per the UN partition plan??

Do explain.

Because the Palestinians - and the Arab world - objected to the confiscation of Muslim land to create Israel.

As explained by fundamentalist Bin Laden many decades later, as one of his chief disputes with the West.

Of course the Jews claimed sovereignty of half of Palestine, but the UN should never have recognized the Jewish claim, UNTIL the UN was also in a position to proclaim Palestinian sovereignty as per UN 181.

Israel existed long before Islam & Muslims.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #317 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 12:31pm

Gnads wrote on Jul 26^th, 2024 at 1:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 4:09pm:

Gnads wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2024 at 1:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 4:39pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:41pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 19^th, 2024 at 3:20pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 17^th, 2024 at 12:55am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:48pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 16^th, 2024 at 2:27pm:

Rape and pillage is not a "fundamentalist" interpretation of Islam. It is the mainstream interpretation of Islam, because that is what Muhammad did. He used the religion to justify warmongering and sexual slavery.

See Aquarius' post #237, for the correct narrative re 'violence against infidels'.

Yeah - but it's like Muslim native title ... it's all open to interpretation,

The point is Payman is not into "rape and pillage" - as blindly asserted by FD (who says Muslims rape and pillage Jews as a matter of course, nothing to do with a fundamentalist reading of the Koran).

Quote:

Why does Israel have such a problem with them?

Because the UN stuffed-up its recognition of Israel, without recognizing Palestine at the same time, as per the UN's own resolution 181, in 1947.

Quote:

Would that such integrity were still the norm in this day and age..... look at what we've got to offer ..... Jesus wept....

Note that the US and Canada refused entry for a ship carrying Jewish refugees from Germany, in 1938.

Now the US is oppressing Palestinians by refusing to recognize Palestine, and end the illegal Israeli occupation of the WB.

As for your 'native title' obsession, I explained the error which blind, unreasoning attachment to individual cultures leads to - which you brushed aside as 'political rhetoric', thereby confirming your mental incompetence.

If the UN voted to partition Muslim land to create a Jewish state, justice demands it should also have created the other state (in the Partition) for Muslims.

So supporting those who are into rape and pillage is not being into rape and pillage yourself..... a fine line...

Oh.. graps - I will persist with exposing your errors despite your mental incomptence:

So: extremists (fundamentalists) who rape and pillage, believing they are defending the One True God by driving Jews out of Muslim Palestine; versus myself who is not into rape and pillage - where is the "fine line"?

Quote:

It wasn't Muslim land other than by invasion...

In the 7th century, when the locals suffering under oppressive Byzantine sovereignty welcomed the Muslims Arabs.

Quote:

Independent Gaza is just the worst example of what they've done to themselves...

After the stuffed-up UN recognition of Israel in 1947; Gaza should have been/was intended to be part of the Palestinian state.

Quote:

If Payman doesn't like it - there's the door.... she's had her chance and by the same behaviour, has blown it for herself and all the others now.

Payman and 150 member nations of the UN recognize Palestine; Oz and the US don't.

Why not?

Yeah ... & how many of them are undemocratic Muslim States?

The UN is stacked with them. Anti Israel & Jews.

Plus Norway, Spain and Ireland...

Quote:

The Israelis have every right to be where they are.

No they don't, Israel only has a "Right" to exist alongside a Palestinian state, as per the UN Partition Plan.

I beg to differ. They were there nearly 500 years before Islam existed.

A graphic illustration of the general ignorance displayed by the postulated 'right' to 'The Promised Land' ideologues.

In fact Emperor Hadrian had banished Jews from Jerusalem 500 years before Islam arrived.

And Jews were sovereign in greater Israel for a mere couple of centuries from King David to the loss of northern Israel to the Assyrian empire in the 8th century BC.

After that, Israel was subject to the sovereignty of a succession of world empires - until the Romans, followed by Christian Byzantines, drove Jews out of Jerusalem in the 2nd century AD, as noted above.

Newly-created Islam conquered the area in the 630's AD, when the Caliph allowed Jews to return to Jeruslam (under Islamic sovereignty), for the first time in 500 years.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82754 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem Reply #318 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 9:47pm bites tongue over obvious rejoinder to this headline ...n-n-n-n-ot ........ y-y-y-y .... oh damn it... that's a good Muslim .....
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #319 - Jul 28^th, 2024 at 12:46pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

**bites tongue over obvious rejoinder to this headline **

...n-n-n-n-ot ........ y-y-y-y .... oh damn it... that's a good Muslim .....

Take it from Bin Laden: the creation of Israel, inter alia, is a major cause of Islamic terrorism.

And unlike the myth propgated by Gnads, today's Jews DON'T have "right " to half of Palestine, they were granted it by the UN in 1947/8.

Should never have happened UNTIL the UNSC could guarantee security of 2 states side by side.

To avoid the endless war ever since.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48814 At my desk.	Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem Reply #320 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 8:52am Quote: Take it from Bin Laden: the creation of Israel, inter alia, is a major cause of Islamic terrorism. Muslims have been terrorizing people in the name of Islam for 1400 years. Israel is the excuse, not the cause.
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freediver

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #321 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 8:54am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 26^th, 2024 at 11:28am:

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

Quote:

She told us what she wants.

Is what she actually said anything like the words you put in her mouth?

Yes.

Quote:

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free

meaning, eg:

(google)

"In Britain, the Labour party issued a temporary punishment to a member of Parliament, Andy McDonald, for using the phrase during a rally at which he called for a stop to bombardment.

“We won’t rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis & Palestinians, between the river & the sea can live in peaceful liberty,” he tweeted.

Then he explained: “These words should not be construed in any other way than they were intended, namely as a heart felt plea for an end to killings in Israel, Gaza, and the occupied West Bank, and for all peoples in the region to live in freedom without the threat of violence.”

Whereas you defend Netanyahu's illegal demand for an Israel extending 'from the river to the sea'.

Deplorable.

That is not what Fati said. Why are all the excuse mongers so eager to avoid addressing what Muslims actually say, but so eager to divine what they really mean without asking them?

It's like hearing a Nazi call for Lebensraum and reassuring everyone he is merely supporting the Greens' demand for a rent freeze.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #322 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 12:09pm

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2024 at 8:54am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 26^th, 2024 at 11:28am:

freediver wrote on Jul 26^th, 2024 at 10:58am:

Quote:

She told us what she wants.

Is what she actually said anything like the words you put in her mouth?

Yes.

Quote:

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free

meaning, eg:

(google)

"In Britain, the Labour party issued a temporary punishment to a member of Parliament, Andy McDonald, for using the phrase during a rally at which he called for a stop to bombardment.

“We won’t rest until we have justice. Until all people, Israelis & Palestinians, between the river & the sea can live in peaceful liberty,” he tweeted.

Then he explained: “These words should not be construed in any other way than they were intended, namely as a heart felt plea for an end to killings in Israel, Gaza, and the occupied West Bank, and for all peoples in the region to live in freedom without the threat of violence.”

Whereas you defend Netanyahu's illegal demand for an Israel extending 'from the river to the sea'.

Deplorable.

That is not what Fati said.

To repeat, she said she wants recognition of Palestine now, how hard is that to understand?

While the criminal Netanyahu is demanding Israel 'from the river to the sea', repeated last week.

See how your blind pro-Israel ideology cripples your capacity for analysis?

Quote:

Why are all the excuse mongers so eager to avoid addressing what Muslims actually say, but so eager to divine what they really mean without asking them?

You blindness results in your frustration at perceived "excuse mongers".

I'm not an excuse monger, I want Palestine NOW - even if 70 years later than it should have been created.

Simple justice, no "excuse" - and also international law, since UN Res 181 was adopted way back in 1947 (aka the Partition resolution).

Quote:

It's like hearing a Nazi call for Lebensraum and reassuring everyone he is merely supporting the Greens' demand for a rent freeze.

Your errors abound:

1. The Nazi call for Lebensraum was an expansion of Germany into other people's land - though some of that land was indeed inhabited by majority Germans ....an "excuse"?

2. Equating a land-grab with a call to control unaffordable rent increases is asinine, to be expected from a blind free-market ideologuie.

3. In fact Netanyahu's demand for Israel 'from the river to the sea' is the REAL land-grab currently upsetting the ICJ and most of the UNGA who believe in international law.

Deplorable.

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« Last Edit: Jul 29^th, 2024 at 12:18pm by thegreatdivide »

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freediver

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #323 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 12:26pm

Quote:

To repeat, she said she wants recognition of Palestine now, how hard is that to understand?

This is what Fati said, and what you and all the other apologists keep tapdancing around:

Quote:

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free

Quote:

Equating a land-grab with a call to control unaffordable rent increases is asinine

I was equating your spineless apologetics.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82754 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem Reply #324 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 5:42pm Not yet, she isn't - we've got her in training....
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #325 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 6:16pm

freediver wrote on Jul 29^th, 2024 at 12:26pm:

This is what Fati said, and what you and all the other apologists keep tapdancing around:

from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free

You keep ignoring the post I explained other interpretations of the phrase - even while Netanyahu is spouting the same phrase, replacing 'Palestine' with 'Israel' ie denying a Palestinian state.

Quote:

I was equating your spineless apologetics.

What's spineless about demanding affordable rents?

Or a Palestinian state as stated in international law, in this case, UN res 181, way back in 1947?

(In fact, the UN is spineless, courtesy of your delusional "freedom values" ideology).

See how your blind "freedom" ideology is crippling your capacity for analysis.

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« Last Edit: Jul 29^th, 2024 at 6:25pm by thegreatdivide »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82754 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem Reply #326 - Jul 29^th, 2024 at 10:07pm
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freediver

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #327 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:39am

Quote:

You keep ignoring the post I explained other interpretations of the phrase

I expect I responded and you ignored that response. Feel free to post the link.

Affordable rents is "another interpretation" of someone mentioning lebensraum. It would make sense from someone who is a spineless apologist for nazism trying to obfuscate the use of the phrase by a Nazi.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #328 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 11:50am

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2024 at 8:39am:

Quote:

You keep ignoring the post I explained other interpretations of the phrase

I expect I responded and you ignored that response. Feel free to post the link.

#312.

Quote:

Affordable rents is "another interpretation" of someone mentioning lebensraum.

Low IQ - and/or crippled "freedom values" brain; stealing 'living space' from another country (...an Israeli specialty) is not the same as rent-seekers demanding unaffordable rents in their own country.

Only a crippled brain would "interpret"/equate the two.

Quote:

It would make sense from someone who is a spineless apologist for nazism trying to obfuscate the use of the phrase by a Nazi.

Refuted above.

To make it clear to your low IQ, ideologically-blinded brain: Hilter - like Netanyahu now, was making his own laws, as opposed to the institution of international law - which we know you don't do....

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freediver

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Re: Fatima Payman is a good moslem
Reply #329 - Jul 30^th, 2024 at 11:58am

Quote:

#312.

That was an explanation given by a different person who said something different.

Point is, why can you not think for yourself? Why can none of the other spineless apologists think for themselves? You are all too eager to tell us what Fati really wants and put words in her mouth, but you run away from offering an opinion on what she has actually said. You are correct that you have come the closest - you offered someone else's opinion on some other comment made by someone else. But that just proves my point.

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