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The Keys to the White House (Read 6636 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #225 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 9:03am
 
Despite Lichtman's insistence that the keys are sound, Key 2 - 'No primary contest', is flawed.

There was no primary contest, but the popular consensus that there should have been threatens the key's soundness.

While 'anointings' are common in US politics, it appears Americans do draw a line on them - particularly when they are so publicly done and when a sitting president is concerned.

With Trump heading into his 80s, if he starts to suffer cognitive decline, Americans may be faced with a repeat of 2024.
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Frank
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #226 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 10:35am
 
Ok, post mortem of the  13 keys




1      Party mandate      After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than after the previous midterm elections.


2      No primary contest      There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination.
FAVOURS TRUMP



3      Incumbent seeking re-election      The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president. 
FAVOURS TRUMP



4      No third party      There is no significant third party or independent campaign. 
FAVOURS TRUMP



5      Strong short-term economy      The economy is not in recession during the election campaign.
FAVOURS TRUMP



6      Strong long-term economy      Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms.
FAVOURS TRUMP



7      Major policy change      The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy. 
FAVOURS TRUMP



8      No social unrest      There is no sustained social unrest during the term.
FAVOURS TRUMP



9      No scandal      The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal.
FAVOURS TRUMP



10      No foreign or military failure      The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs.
FAVOURS TRUMP



11      Major foreign or military success      The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs.
FAVOURS TRUMP



12      Charismatic incumbent      The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero.
FAVOURS TRUMP



13      Uncharismatic challenger      The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero.
FAVOURS TRUMP




So the keys foreshadowed a strong Trump victory. Lichtman's system is saved.


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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #227 - Nov 9th, 2024 at 12:39pm
 
For those who don't understand hoe Lichtman's model works:

Key 1 to 11 are assessments of the incumbent Whitehouse party, not the party's sitting president and and other-party challengers.

Key 1 - Party Mandate. if the incumbent party loses seats in the midterms, that is a key against the incumbent party.
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 2 - No party contest for the next candidate - If the incumbent party descends into an internal fight over its next candidate, the key turns against the incumbent party - Think Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden in 2016.
Key Turned For the Democrats
- While there was no party contest, as it turned out, the public perceived this as blatant undemocratic 'anointing'.

Key 3 - Incumbent seeking re-election      - Biden was not seeking reelection -
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 4 - No third party - RFK Jr dropped out -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 5 - Strong short-term economy - Economy is not in recession -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 6 - Strong long-term economy - economic data forecasts strong growth in US beyond 2024 -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 7 - Major policy change - Abortion -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 8 - No social unrest - No visible social upheaval (think 60s, Rodney King, BLM riots
Key Turned For the Democrats
This is controversial, as Millennials and Zoomers tend to register deep dissatisfaction via social media, than burning buildings, smashing windows and upturning cars,

Key 9 - No scandal - This must be a scandal that involves the president directly - i,e, not his family, relatives or friends - Think Watergate. Carter's reprobate brother did not affect Carter's popularity.
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 10 - No foreign or military failure. Gaza was considered a failure -
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 11 - Major foreign or military success - Controversially, Lichtman considered US involvement in Ukraine and reinvigorating the NATO alliance as a success. 
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 12 - Charismatic incumbent - A very high standard is applied here. Think FDR, JFK, Reagan.
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 13 - Uncharismatic challenger - Another very high standard key - Think Reagan.
Key Turned For the Democrats


Lichtman accepts he got key 2 wrong.

He should also consider Key 11 as one he got wrong, as well.

Also, as it turned out, Lichtman should consider that he may have got Key 13 wrong - Charisma is not always dependent on being likable - just that, by force of personality alone, the challenger can sway more than enough people to the cause to win.


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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #228 - Nov 10th, 2024 at 8:34am
 
Lichtman's admitted wrong call on Key 2 - no primary contest - has got him rattled.

According to his model, he had no choice but to turn the key for the Democrats.

The notion of 'no primary contest' when the nation believes there should have been, requires a rethink of that key.

Also, the two-dimensionality (either/or) of certain keys, I believe, is a major flaw.

Keys 10 and 11, for example. They don't account for multiple failures in each. In Lichtman's model, one failure is enough to turn the key against the incumbent party. But what if there are 2, 3 or 4 military failures, and/or as many serious foreign policy failures? Multiple failures are not accounted for in terms of national dissatisfaction and outrage other than one key each.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #229 - Nov 10th, 2024 at 9:00am
 
Another disturbing element of Lictman's self-analysis of Key 2 is that he blames the Democratic Party for 'shamelessly' trashing their sitting president.

Really? Didn't they defend him and allow him to govern despite his obvious decline, and only called it when they couldn't hide it any more?

This calls into question why they had deep misgivings about pulling the 25th, say in 2023, and allowing Harris to assume the presidency.

Was Harris chosen, as so many VP picks are, because she was perceived as being no threat (intellectual or otherwise) to the sitting president? e.g. Mike Pence, Joe Biden, Dan Quale, even George H W Bush (a faceless and low charisma VP), Truman...

Even Johnson was mocked by the Kennedys and the snooty New England elites as a Texas hick and a nobody.

What does it say of the VP selection process that being perceived as ill-equipped for the presidency is so often a mandatory quality for VP selection?
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #230 - Nov 10th, 2024 at 9:24am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 9th, 2024 at 12:39pm:
For those who don't understand hoe Lichtman's model works:

Key 1 to 11 are assessments of the incumbent Whitehouse party, not the party's sitting president and and other-party challengers.

Key 1 - Party Mandate. if the incumbent party loses seats in the midterms, that is a key against the incumbent party.
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 2 - No party contest for the next candidate - If the incumbent party descends into an internal fight over its next candidate, the key turns against the incumbent party - Think Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden in 2016.
Key Turned For the Democrats
- While there was no party contest, as it turned out, the public perceived this as blatant undemocratic 'anointing'.

Key 3 - Incumbent seeking re-election      - Biden was not seeking reelection -
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 4 - No third party - RFK Jr dropped out -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 5 - Strong short-term economy - Economy is not in recession -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 6 - Strong long-term economy - economic data forecasts strong growth in US beyond 2024 -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 7 - Major policy change - Abortion -
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 8 - No social unrest - No visible social upheaval (think 60s, Rodney King, BLM riots
Key Turned For the Democrats
This is controversial, as Millennials and Zoomers tend to register deep dissatisfaction via social media, than burning buildings, smashing windows and upturning cars,

Key 9 - No scandal - This must be a scandal that involves the president directly - i,e, not his family, relatives or friends - Think Watergate. Carter's reprobate brother did not affect Carter's popularity.
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 10 - No foreign or military failure. Gaza was considered a failure -
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 11 - Major foreign or military success - Controversially, Lichtman considered US involvement in Ukraine and reinvigorating the NATO alliance as a success. 
Key Turned For the Democrats


Key 12 - Charismatic incumbent - A very high standard is applied here. Think FDR, JFK, Reagan.
Key Turned Against the Democrats


Key 13 - Uncharismatic challenger - Another very high standard key - Think Reagan.
Key Turned For the Democrats


Lichtman accepts he got key 2 wrong.

He should also consider Key 11 as one he got wrong, as well.

Also, as it turned out, Lichtman should consider that he may have got Key 13 wrong - Charisma is not always dependent on being likable - just that, by force of personality alone, the challenger can sway more than enough people to the cause to win.




Evidently the electorate did NOT interpret these keys as Lichman did- and that's the flaw in this schema.
Interpretation.
For example, Kennedy didn't drop out and go home. He joined Trump. NOT THE SAME THING.
Unrest - BLM and Jan 6 riots are unresolved. Antisemitic divisive Pallo unrest ongoing since Oct 7.
Economy - the electorate obviously believed their lying eyes ahead of the Dem memo
Incumbent - the Dems trashed their own incumbent when their lies about his competencnce became indefensible. Then they installed, by ukaze, an even more incompetent airhead with no policies or charisma, only an irritating hollow cackle.
Military success - military failure on all fronts
Scandal - far too many to mention, all manufactured. Corrupt Lawfare against Dem political enemies is probably the most pertinent and is heavily against the Dems.
Abortion - SCOTUS devolved legal power on abortion back to the States in June 2022. In the Nov 2022 midterms Republicans regained House majority. Dems gained Senate seats = an obvious STATE issue, not a federal one.
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« Last Edit: Nov 10th, 2024 at 9:58am by Frank »  

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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #231 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 2:45pm
 
How it started...


MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 6th, 2024 at 11:10am:
US historian Allan Lichtman's 13 true/false statements have successfully predicted every presidential election bar one since 1984.

The one he got wrong was Al Gore - which, given the circumstances, he gets a pass on.

The Keys to the White House is a checklist of thirteen true/false statements that pertain to the circumstances surrounding a presidential election. If five or fewer of the statements are false, the incumbent party is predicted to win the election. If six or more are false, the incumbent party is predicted to lose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Keys_to_the_White_House

To date, Lichtman has Biden at 7 of the 8 points needed to win, with the possibility of another 2.

Lichtman gives his final assessment in August of an election year.




... And how it's going:

Allan Lichtman a.k.a “Election Nostradamus” explains why he got 2024 all wrong and why his fabled “keys” didn’t work. Turns out his model relies on the electorate thinking just like him!

He's blaming everything but his own hubris for misleading so many people: racism, misogyny, disinformation, etc.
His 'predictions' were based on the Big Media echo chamber of bs, lies and disinformation.


Gedoutahere!!

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« Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2024 at 2:51pm by Frank »  

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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #232 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 3:13pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 9th, 2024 at 9:03am:
Despite Lichtman's insistence that the keys are sound, Key 2 - 'No primary contest', is flawed.

There was no primary contest, but the popular consensus that there should have been threatens the key's soundness.

While 'anointings' are common in US politics, it appears Americans do draw a line on them - particularly when they are so publicly done and when a sitting president is concerned.

With Trump heading into his 80s, if he starts to suffer cognitive decline, Americans may be faced with a repeat of 2024.


If he starts to suffer further cognitive decline.

He's already started the journey.


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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #233 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 3:49pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 11th, 2024 at 3:13pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 9th, 2024 at 9:03am:
Despite Lichtman's insistence that the keys are sound, Key 2 - 'No primary contest', is flawed.

There was no primary contest, but the popular consensus that there should have been threatens the key's soundness.

While 'anointings' are common in US politics, it appears Americans do draw a line on them - particularly when they are so publicly done and when a sitting president is concerned.

With Trump heading into his 80s, if he starts to suffer cognitive decline, Americans may be faced with a repeat of 2024.


If he starts to suffer further cognitive decline.

He's already started the journey.

Well, this time the Republicans have a VP who, so far, is proving significantly more presidential than Pence did.

Pence fell into the Quale, H W Bush, Biden, Harris - even Truman and Johnson - category of VP picks who were expected to stay national unknowns, underwhelming and little to no threat to the president.

Vance is so far proving he could easily upstage Trump.

If Trump f~cks himself up with impeachable stuff, he could find himself, as Nixon did, with bipartisan support for impeachment.

If Trump declines cognitively, the Republicans are in the safe seat of pulling the 25th on him.

With Vance in the wings, the Republican Party have no further need for Trump.

Trump's first order of business will be to freeze Vance out of presidential deliberations and demand he remain invisible.

Vance having crawled his way out of Appalachian destitution, may not be as intimidated by Trump as Trump would want.

Vance also appears to be a party loyalist (something Trump is not) and will be capable of raising the 25th, or supporting impeachment, if the Republicans believe Trump needs to be gone.
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #234 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:11pm
 
Who knows? Maybe Trump will make Vance the 'border Tsar'!

It f~cked Harris up... Maybe it would do the same to Vance... Make him responsible for rounding up 20 million illegals, responsible for identifying the original country of every illegal, responsible for negotiating with each country of origin to accept hundreds of thousands of returnees, and finding a way to get 20 million people back to where they came from on the cheap.

Maybe have Musk carp about how much Vance is costing the taxpayer to get the illegals' job done, and how much cheaper Musk could do it by shooting them all into space.

It will give Trump the ammunition to slag Vance off as an incompetent loser if he fails at any of it.

One thing seems certain: he'll need something on Vance in his back pocket to keep him in his box.
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #235 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:15pm
 
Are gold-plated and etched with the initials DT..... though I doubt his hand will shake as he opens the doors with them...

On what basis should illegal immigrants demand that they be left to stay there?  They're eating the dogs......
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #236 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:18pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:11pm:
Who knows? Maybe Trump will make Vance the 'border Tsar'!

It f~cked Harris up... Maybe it would do the same to Vance... Make him responsible for rounding up 20 million illegals, responsible for identifying the original country of every illegal, responsible for negotiating with each country of origin to accept hundreds of thousands of returnees, and finding a way to get 20 million people back to where they came from on the cheap.

Maybe have Musk carp about how much Vance is costing the taxpayer to get the illegals' job done, and how much cheaper Musk could do it by shooting them all into space.

It will give Trump the ammunition to slag Vance off as an incompetent loser if he fails at any of it.

One thing seems certain: he'll need something on Vance in his back pocket to keep him in his box.


Perhaps negotiate a Homeland with Canada..... some of that unused tundra..... nice little camps and build infrastructure... easy ...

Zo - what is your home country that you came from?
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #237 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:19pm
 
They only need to look to Australia to see how hard it is to repatriate even a few hundred illegals.

Maybe the US could build a detention centre on that actual floating pile of garbage in the Pacific...

Apparently, it's the size of France, so plenty of room on it... and plenty of room for some beachfront property while they're at it.


Maybe they could do what the British did with their prisoners and find someplace in Africa or South America to transport them to... Like they did in the American colonies and Australia.

Liberia comes to mind... They're always ranting about wanting to become a state of the US.
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #238 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:47pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 11th, 2024 at 3:49pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Nov 11th, 2024 at 3:13pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 9th, 2024 at 9:03am:
Despite Lichtman's insistence that the keys are sound, Key 2 - 'No primary contest', is flawed.

There was no primary contest, but the popular consensus that there should have been threatens the key's soundness.

While 'anointings' are common in US politics, it appears Americans do draw a line on them - particularly when they are so publicly done and when a sitting president is concerned.

With Trump heading into his 80s, if he starts to suffer cognitive decline, Americans may be faced with a repeat of 2024.


If he starts to suffer further cognitive decline.

He's already started the journey.

Well, this time the Republicans have a VP who, so far, is proving significantly more presidential than Pence did.

Pence fell into the Quale, H W Bush, Biden, Harris - even Truman and Johnson - category of VP picks who were expected to stay national unknowns, underwhelming and little to no threat to the president.

Vance is so far proving he could easily upstage Trump.

If Trump f~cks himself up with impeachable stuff, he could find himself, as Nixon did, with bipartisan support for impeachment.

If Trump declines cognitively, the Republicans are in the safe seat of pulling the 25th on him.

With Vance in the wings, the Republican Party have no further need for Trump.

Trump's first order of business will be to freeze Vance out of presidential deliberations and demand he remain invisible.

Vance having crawled his way out of Appalachian destitution, may not be as intimidated by Trump as Trump would want.

Vance also appears to be a party loyalist (something Trump is not) and will be capable of raising the 25th, or supporting impeachment, if the Republicans believe Trump needs to be gone.

You have made almost as many and as idiotic, grossly malicious predictions as gweggy turd - but have you learned? No.
You continue in the same stupid, Slavic, slavering/slandering manner.

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Frank
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Re: The Keys to the White House
Reply #239 - Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:55pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Nov 11th, 2024 at 6:19pm:
They only need to look to Australia to see how hard it is to repatriate even a few hundred illegals.

Maybe the US could build a detention centre on that actual floating pile of garbage in the Pacific...

Apparently, it's the size of France, so plenty of room on it... and plenty of room for some beachfront property while they're at it.


Maybe they could do what the British did with their prisoners and find someplace in Africa or South America to transport them to... Like they did in the American colonies and Australia.

Liberia comes to mind... They're always ranting about wanting to become a state of the US.


Nonsense on stilts. Most illegals enter the US from Mexico and that's where they will be returned to. Do remember that Mexico allowed them to illegally cross its borders, both IN and OUT of Mexico.
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