Australian Politics Forum - Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile

Bobby.

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #15 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 3:06pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 1:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:45am:

I thought Keating made some good points.

He really doesn't - not one single point he makes is "good". He calls the US "aggressive" when it's actually China who has been the aggressor. China has unilaterally claimed most of the SCS as its own, in clear violation of international law and a binding international court ruling. They ram Philippino naval vessels within their own territorial waters, attack Philippino sailors and steal and damage their equipment. They conduct unsafe maneuvers near US, Australian, Canadian and other military aircraft flying in international airspace and ships in international waters. They promised not to militarise artificial reefs and then went ahead and did just that - in territory that was not their own. China does all this and somehow the United States are the aggressors? Sorry, but Keating is a delusional twat who clearly has lost his marbles long ago. All that the US, Australia and others are doing is attempting to ensure the territorial integrity of multiple nations within the SCS that China is attempting to trample over - an area through which a huge amount of sea trade is carried, especially for Australia. Keating needs to pizz off to China and stay there because his views are not in line with reality by any stretch of the imagination.

You make some rather good points.
I would also say that -

Keating is saying we don't need the Yanks to fight China -
we can fight the largest navy in the world all on our own. Undecided

Australia wouldn't need to fight anybody if Uncle Sam did not foment wars and chaos.

Australia is incapable of defending its coastlines or its trade routes.

The submarines are a figment.

None of the Australian defence force personnel want to spend their lives sailing around while restraining their anger from punching a Chinaman in the nose because Australian propaganda has raised the anger levels of Australian military personnel.

China has the largest navy in the world.

My grandmother used to say - way back in the 1970s -

" if the Chinese thought they could get away with it -
they would invade us tomorrow."

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Daves2017 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1039 Gender:	Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile Reply #16 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:44pm When Paul Keating speaks it's only a matter of time before bob Carr pop up and adds something. It should be a condition of being paid parliament pension they aren't allowed talk There is a reason why they were voted out. Losers
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #17 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 3:06pm:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 1:39pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:53am:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:45am:

I thought Keating made some good points.

He really doesn't - not one single point he makes is "good". He calls the US "aggressive" when it's actually China who has been the aggressor. China has unilaterally claimed most of the SCS as its own, in clear violation of international law and a binding international court ruling. They ram Philippino naval vessels within their own territorial waters, attack Philippino sailors and steal and damage their equipment. They conduct unsafe maneuvers near US, Australian, Canadian and other military aircraft flying in international airspace and ships in international waters. They promised not to militarise artificial reefs and then went ahead and did just that - in territory that was not their own. China does all this and somehow the United States are the aggressors? Sorry, but Keating is a delusional twat who clearly has lost his marbles long ago. All that the US, Australia and others are doing is attempting to ensure the territorial integrity of multiple nations within the SCS that China is attempting to trample over - an area through which a huge amount of sea trade is carried, especially for Australia. Keating needs to pizz off to China and stay there because his views are not in line with reality by any stretch of the imagination.

You make some rather good points.
I would also say that -

Keating is saying we don't need the Yanks to fight China -
we can fight the largest navy in the world all on our own. Undecided

Australia wouldn't need to fight anybody if Uncle Sam did not foment wars and chaos.

Australia is incapable of defending its coastlines or its trade routes.

The submarines are a figment.

None of the Australian defence force personnel want to spend their lives sailing around while restraining their anger from punching a Chinaman in the nose because Australian propaganda has raised the anger levels of Australian military personnel.

China has the largest navy in the world.

My grandmother used to say - way back in the 1970s -

" if the Chinese thought they could get away with it -
they would invade us tomorrow."

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

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Bobby.

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #18 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:06pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

Keating said 10 to 15 days -
he reckons we could stop the whole Chinese armada in that time.

https://www.csis.org/analysis/unpacking-chinas-naval-buildup

China now possesses the world’s largest maritime fighting force, operating 234 warships.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #19 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:09pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:06pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

Keating said 10 to 15 days -
he reckons we could stop the whole Chinese armada in that time.

Sounds plausible.

Is he wrong?

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Setanta

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #20 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:25pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

We have 63 f35s and 24 f18s, how do you think that'd go against a Carrier Battle Group or two, let alone an armada big enough to build a bridgehead on Au? I think we'd be relying on the Chinese being incompetent.

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chimera

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #21 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:57pm

Quick wars are getting longer.
The US was in WWI for 2 years, then 4 years in WWII. Korea is permanent and Vietnam was lost in 8 years, Afghanistan in 20 years.
Israel had a Six Day war, then Three Weeks in 1973. Gaza is 11 months so far and counting.

The US fighting in 3 wars simultaneously could slow things down.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #22 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:02pm

Setanta wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

We have 63 f35s and 24 f18s, how do you think that'd go against a Carrier Battle Group or two, let alone an armada big enough to build a bridgehead on Au? I think we'd be relying on the Chinese being incompetent.

I don't know. How would that go?

If they can't stop a few boats made in China, why do we have 63 f35s and 24 f18s at all?

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Setanta

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #23 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:02pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

We have 63 f35s and 24 f18s, how do you think that'd go against a Carrier Battle Group or two, let alone an armada big enough to build a bridgehead on Au? I think we'd be relying on the Chinese being incompetent.

I don't know. How would that go?

If they can't stop a few boats made in China, why do we have 63 f35s and 24 f18s at all?

I'm sure Sun Tzu would have a few words about underestimating your enemy. Why do we have them, defence in cooperation with our allies, that is where Keating's comments are ridiculous.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20611 Gordon Gender:	Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile Reply #24 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that. This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.
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chimera

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #25 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:46pm

China's navy is expected to grow to 400 ships by 2025 and 440 ships by 2030. 8 ships/ year. It includes destroyers, guided-missile cruisers and a dedicated drone carrier.
US will build six new ships in 2025.

Australia in the next decade will have six new frigates or .6 ship/year.
Japan builds two frigates in 2024, one in 2025 and two after 2025.

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Setanta

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #26 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:48pm

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

And they will also know that, therefore will plan for it. They have two CBGs now and by the end of the decade will have two more, one with nuclear powered carrier. They may not be capable today but they are working their way there quite quickly.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #27 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

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Setanta

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #28 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:08pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

You would have made a good propagandist for the second world war. Japanese are myopic midgets... Why are you racist and think the Chinese are hopeless?

It's good seeing you agree and partner up with Gordon though.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #29 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:10pm

Setanta wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

You would have made a good propagandist for the second world war. Myopic midgets... Why are you racist and think the Chinese are hopeless?

Absolutely nothing to do with anyone's nationality.

It's about extremely fast planes in the air versus very slow boats underneath them.

Year nine maths, innit?

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