Australian Politics Forum - Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile

Setanta

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #30 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:12pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:08pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

You would have made a good propagandist for the second world war. Myopic midgets... Why are you racist and think the Chinese are hopeless?

Absolutely nothing to do with anyone's nationality.

It's about extremely fast planes in the air versus very slow boats underneath them.

Year nine maths, innit?

That's why US CBGs are destroyed all the time by tiny air forces.

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Daves2017

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #31 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:39pm

Lol.
Why would the Chinese invade Australia?

They all ready own anything profitable here.

Most of that privatise and sold off by Labor.

Why would they wasting money and man power?

It's far more in there interest just to keep jacking up electrical prices and tolls and rubbish collection and pharmaceutical costs and profit from it while Australians slowly slide into poverty.

The pooer we become even the more dependent on Chinese companies providing our essential services we become.

Btw by all estimate, if Indonesia invaded Australia and we where minimum two weeks aware of the threat the ADF, given perfect weather and untold luck could be able to fight a rear guard action that would enable the majority ADF time to retreat to Tasmania and either wait rescue by American forces or assistance from NZ to retreat further to the north island.

Don't kid yourself, we have a toy armed forces compared to major Asia nations

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Gordon

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #32 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:40pm

Setanta wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:48pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

And they will also know that, therefore will plan for it. They have two CBGs now and by the end of the decade will have two more, one with nuclear powered carrier. They may not be capable today but they are working their way there quite quickly.

I'm not under estimating them, but the logistics to invade are staggering. They could however, cut us off and strangle us, and that is why we're buying new kit.

One thing to point out, entering AUKUS doesn't just get us the new toys, it also strengthens the alliance with USA so if China did try to cut us off, they'd help, and China would go home.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20611 Gordon Gender:	Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile Reply #33 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:41pm Daves2017 wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:39pm: Lol. Why would the Chinese invade Australia? They all ready own anything profitable here. This. They can buy what they need.
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Bobby.

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #34 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:42pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Nonsense - we only have 6 old Collins subs and usually only 3 in the water
at any one time.
Sometimes we've only had one in the water. Roll Eyes

How could we stop an armada of over 200 well defended ships? Roll Eyes

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #35 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:54pm

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:40pm:

Setanta wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:48pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

And they will also know that, therefore will plan for it. They have two CBGs now and by the end of the decade will have two more, one with nuclear powered carrier. They may not be capable today but they are working their way there quite quickly.

I'm not under estimating them, but the logistics to invade are staggering. They could however, cut us off and strangle us, and that is why we're buying new kit.

One thing to point out, entering AUKUS doesn't just get us the new toys, it also strengthens the alliance with USA so if China did try to cut us off, they'd help, and China would go home.

This is what I think is their end game with regard to the South China Sea - control of shipping lanes through which the annual trade passing through the South China Sea accounts for more than 60 percent of global maritime trade, more than 22 percent of total global trade, and one third of the global shipping. Shipping accounts for over 99% of Australia's total merchandise trade by mass. If they wanted to, the Chinese could hold the world hostage simply by controlling access to the SCS for commercial shipping.

The other reason I think they want to control the SCS is because of their plans to "reunify" Taiwan. It'll never happen peacefully, and if they are really intent on this happening (and I think they are), the only way will be through war. They know the SCS would be a major route for any adversary's warships to come to the aid of Taiwan and if they can deny access to that route, they can fortify their position around Taiwan as the only other route is through the Pacific via Guam or from Japan or South Korea, making removal of Chinese forces that much more difficult and costly. I think the "fight" over natural resources is just a cover for their true intentions.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #36 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:58pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:42pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Nonsense - we only have 6 old Collins subs and usually only 3 in the water
at any one time.
Sometimes we've only had one in the water. Roll Eyes

How could we stop an armada of over 200 well defended ships? Roll Eyes

I'm not saying that our small fleet of submarines could do it, but underestimate them at your peril. They're quieter than a nuclear submarine and in most instances, a diesel/electric like the Collins will almost always detect a nuclear submarine first before it is detected itself. Yes, nuclear submarines have awesome endurance and speed, but their achilles heel is their nuclear propulsion. The very thing that makes them more detectable (not saying they're easily detected) is the water flowing through the multitude of pipes within the nuclear reactor. Yes, it is very well masked, but not 100%.

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Brian Ross

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #37 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:47pm

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics. The PRC does not have the experience, nor the ability to operate far out of sight of their coastline. Their navy is composed primarily of smaller, coastal craft for the most part. They lack experience and ability at ASW warfare. They would be easy pickings for the Australian COLLINS class submarines and the future nuclea boats we are acquiring. They have never operated for long on the sort of missions which are required to attack Australia. We are over 5,000 kilometres from China. They have never operated for sustained operations more than 500 kilometers from China. This discussion belongs in the defence forum. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #38 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:15pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics. The PRC does not have the experience, nor the ability to operate far out of sight of their coastline. Their navy is composed primarily of smaller, coastal craft for the most part. They lack experience and ability at ASW warfare. They would be easy pickings for the Australian COLLINS class submarines and the future nuclea boats we are acquiring. They have never operated for long on the sort of missions which are required to attack Australia. We are over 5,000 kilometres from China. They have never operated for sustained operations more than 500 kilometers from China. This discussion belongs in the defence forum. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

But you banned me from there. Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #39 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:17pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:42pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 8:01pm:

Gordon wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 7:40pm:

We don't have to be able to 100% beat off a Chinese invasion, just make it immensely costly for them, and we can certainly do that.

This isn't 1941, they can't sneak up on us. It takes months to mobilise an invasion that size and we'd know soon after they started planning it.

Exactly.

It should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Nonsense - we only have 6 old Collins subs and usually only 3 in the water
at any one time.
Sometimes we've only had one in the water. Roll Eyes

How could we stop an armada of over 200 well defended ships? Roll Eyes

I'm not saying that our small fleet of submarines could do it, but underestimate them at your peril. They're quieter than a nuclear submarine and in most instances, a diesel/electric like the Collins will almost always detect a nuclear submarine first before it is detected itself. Yes, nuclear submarines have awesome endurance and speed, but their achilles heel is their nuclear propulsion. The very thing that makes them more detectable (not saying they're easily detected) is the water flowing through the multitude of pipes within the nuclear reactor. Yes, it is very well masked, but not 100%.

Ohh come on - we can't beat a superpower navy with a few old subs. Roll Eyes

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Brian Ross

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #40 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:44pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics. The PRC does not have the experience, nor the ability to operate far out of sight of their coastline. Their navy is composed primarily of smaller, coastal craft for the most part. They lack experience and ability at ASW warfare. They would be easy pickings for the Australian COLLINS class submarines and the future nuclea boats we are acquiring. They have never operated for long on the sort of missions which are required to attack Australia. We are over 5,000 kilometres from China. They have never operated for sustained operations more than 500 kilometers from China. This discussion belongs in the defence forum. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

But you banned me from there. Roll Eyes

Change your tactics, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Bobby.

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #41 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:46pm

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics. The PRC does not have the experience, nor the ability to operate far out of sight of their coastline. Their navy is composed primarily of smaller, coastal craft for the most part. They lack experience and ability at ASW warfare. They would be easy pickings for the Australian COLLINS class submarines and the future nuclea boats we are acquiring. They have never operated for long on the sort of missions which are required to attack Australia. We are over 5,000 kilometres from China. They have never operated for sustained operations more than 500 kilometers from China. This discussion belongs in the defence forum. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

But you banned me from there. Roll Eyes

Change your tactics, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I'm only welcome at your MRB if I agree with your posts. Roll Eyes

I don't agree - you write nonsense and can't back it up with any facts.

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Captain Nemo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10358 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile Reply #42 - Aug 9^th, 2024 at 11:01pm
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freediver

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #43 - Aug 10^th, 2024 at 8:11am

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:09pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 6:06pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:

How long would their boats take to get to Australia?

Is it possible that our Air Force could sink them long before they got here?

Keating said 10 to 15 days -
he reckons we could stop the whole Chinese armada in that time.

Sounds plausible.

Is he wrong?

Australia alone?

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Gordon

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Re: Paul Keating continues to prove he's a Sinophile
Reply #44 - Aug 10^th, 2024 at 8:37am

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:46pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 10:15pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Aug 9^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, amateurs talk strategy and professionals talk logistics. The PRC does not have the experience, nor the ability to operate far out of sight of their coastline. Their navy is composed primarily of smaller, coastal craft for the most part. They lack experience and ability at ASW warfare. They would be easy pickings for the Australian COLLINS class submarines and the future nuclea boats we are acquiring. They have never operated for long on the sort of missions which are required to attack Australia. We are over 5,000 kilometres from China. They have never operated for sustained operations more than 500 kilometers from China. This discussion belongs in the defence forum. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

But you banned me from there. Roll Eyes

Change your tactics, Bobby. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

I'm only welcome at your MRB if I agree with your posts. Roll Eyes

I don't agree - you write nonsense and can't back it up with any facts.

Bobby, you should acquiesce to Brian's superior intellect.
He has several degrees, including a doctorate of divinity.

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