Australian Politics Forum - Australian industry: High cost, low productivity

Laugh till you cry

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Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Aug 13^th, 2024 at 10:02am

If Australia does not break out of the cycle of high cost and low productivity in the construction industry, and other industries, the quality of life will eventually decline.

Perhaps it already has.

The reason Chinese road construction contractors are not allowed to operate in Australia is that Australian industry would be humiliated by the efficiency, low cost, and speed of construction by the Chinese.

Even a km or two of Australian suburban roads built by Australian contractors takes a decade to finish because the longer it takes the more money the people associated with the project make.

Australian society needs innovation, new ideas, and visionaries.

Australia is heading nowhere at breakneck speed and will eventually hit the wall where even doing nothing will become too laborious and uneconomic.

Australia could not finish a project like "China's Longest Highway in The Middle of The Ocean" in several million years which would not even start in Australia until there had been several decades-long debates before the final go ahead.

Yes, even the pro and con debaters make money by delaying the projects.

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34658 Gender:	Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity Reply #1 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 12:44pm ltyc has posted something with which i agree has ltyc started on the narrow road to success ?
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Bobby.

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #2 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:36pm

In Australia the roads are managed in a strange way.

I know of a roundabout that was built 1 hour out of Melbourne.
It took 18 months to build and the traffic was held up every day in that time
with a bulldozed one way side road to get the traffic through each way.
It must have cost $millions?
It ended up being a magnificent roundabout but on the main road and the side road it connected to -
there were so many pot holes and there still are years later - go figure?

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tickleandrose

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #3 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:40pm

I believe the boat has already sailed for low tech manufacturing for Australia. With our current standard of living and GDP, there is no way, we can compete with people working in developing countries (China or not) who live by $2 per day. We are also geographically isolated from the rest of the world, meaning our price is highly dependent on transportation.

Politically we are also stuck. We have most favourable political and military alliance with USA and Europe. However, our trade conditions with them are less than favourable. Where as, we have very favourable trading conditions with China (despite sanctions), but at best we could do is to stabilise this relationship due to our reliance with the West. (We are the West). Some believe we could develop more ties with India, which is a democracy (of sorts). However, if India managed to get itself into a position to challenge USA, I suspect, it would be treated the same as China.

Long term wise, if we want to have a more productive economy, it is going to be in the areas of new industries. This means, we have to increase education, increase innovation, at the same time, improve our infrastructure. And critically, be able to trade with everyone, and this include China, India and the Brics. And this would require at least 20 to 25 years of bipartisan support. So to put in simply, it’s a dream.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48994 At my desk.	Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity Reply #4 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:44pm Quote: High cost, low productivity We get paid a lot for doing bugger all. Sounds like success to me.
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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #5 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:44pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

In Australia the roads are managed in a strange way.

I know of a roundabout that was built 1 hour out of Melbourne.
It took 18 months to build and the traffic was held up every day in that time
with a bulldozed one way side road to get the traffic through each way.
It must have cost $millions?
It ended up being a magnificent roundabout but on the main road and the side road it connected to -
there were so many pot holes and there still are years later - go figure?

This could just be a failure of communication between the Department of digging holes and the Department of filling in holes.

The Department of filling in holes may be filling holes that have not yet been dug.

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Bobby.

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #6 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:51pm

tickleandrose wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:40pm:

I believe the boat has already sailed for low tech manufacturing for Australia. With our current standard of living and GDP, there is no way, we can compete with people working in developing countries (China or not) who live by $2 per day.

And that's the problem.
It's also super expensive to live in Australia.
People need high pay to cover the enormous living costs.

Back in the early 1980s Melbourne was a city of factories -
we made everything - but not anymore.
We stopped making shoes before the end of the 1980s.
What do we make now?
Go to Bunnings and just about everything is imported.
We can't compete with China and never will.

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Bobby.

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #7 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:53pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:44pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:36pm:

In Australia the roads are managed in a strange way.

I know of a roundabout that was built 1 hour out of Melbourne.
It took 18 months to build and the traffic was held up every day in that time
with a bulldozed one way side road to get the traffic through each way.
It must have cost $millions?
It ended up being a magnificent roundabout but on the main road and the side road it connected to -
there were so many pot holes and there still are years later - go figure?

This could just be a failure of communication between the Department of digging holes and the Department of filling in holes.

The Department of filling in holes may be filling holes that have not yet been dug.

The Department of filling in holes needs a new manager.
We pay a fuel excise to repair our roads - where does all that money go?

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tickleandrose

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #8 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:14pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:40pm:

I believe the boat has already sailed for low tech manufacturing for Australia. With our current standard of living and GDP, there is no way, we can compete with people working in developing countries (China or not) who live by $2 per day.

And that's the problem.
It's also super expensive to live in Australia.
People need high pay to cover the enormous living costs.

Back in the early 1980s Melbourne was a city of factories -
we made everything - but not anymore.
We stopped making shoes before the end of the 1980s.
What do we make now?
Go to Bunnings and just about everything is imported.
We can't compete with China and never will.

Looking through the lens of history, I really dont think the days of 1960s to 1980s would ever come back. It was the decades just after world war 2. Our competitors, Japan, Korea, German - they were all trying to recover from ashes. And so, Australian exports were wanted in USA and UK, and at the same time, our industrialist had no where to go for cheaper labour. That was the golden time for Australia.

The seed of our decline began when Britain joined EU, and decided to import and trade more with EU than Australia. What followed was the rise of Japan, Korea, German, and then Chinese manufacturing, coupled with globalization. And we got left behind. Embarrassed

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34658 Gender:	Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity Reply #9 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:21pm freediver wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:44pm: Quote: High cost, low productivity We get paid a lot for doing bugger all. Sounds like success to me. lol thats why your grandkids will never own a home
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Bobby.

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #10 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:31pm

tickleandrose wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:14pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:51pm:

tickleandrose wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 2:40pm:

I believe the boat has already sailed for low tech manufacturing for Australia. With our current standard of living and GDP, there is no way, we can compete with people working in developing countries (China or not) who live by $2 per day.

And that's the problem.
It's also super expensive to live in Australia.
People need high pay to cover the enormous living costs.

Back in the early 1980s Melbourne was a city of factories -
we made everything - but not anymore.
We stopped making shoes before the end of the 1980s.
What do we make now?
Go to Bunnings and just about everything is imported.
We can't compete with China and never will.

Looking through the lens of history, I really dont think the days of 1960s to 1980s would ever come back. It was the decades just after world war 2. Our competitors, Japan, Korea, German - they were all trying to recover from ashes. And so, Australian exports were wanted in USA and UK, and at the same time, our industrialist had no where to go for cheaper labour. That was the golden time for Australia.

The seed of our decline began when Britain joined EU, and decided to import and trade more with EU than Australia. What followed was the rise of Japan, Korea, German, and then Chinese manufacturing, coupled with globalization. And we got left behind. Embarrassed

The POMs were silly -
after spending 100s of years building up an empire that gave us all the Commonwealth -
they threw it all away to join the EU.
their standard of living went down -
the average British family could no longer afford a Sunday roast dinner of Australian or NZ lamb etc. -
they had only bangers and mash and lived like Steptoe and Son.

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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #11 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 6:07pm

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:31pm:

The POMs were silly -
after spending 100s of years building up an empire that gave us all the Commonwealth -
they threw it all away to join the EU.
their standard of living went down -
the average British family could no longer afford a Sunday roast dinner of Australian or NZ lamb etc. -
they had only bangers and mash and lived like Steptoe and Son.

I worked in the UK 1977-1979. It was a terrible place with poverty and rubbish blowing about on the streets.

UK families could not afford roast dinners of any kind, including road kill.

Uk Wage growth from 1973 to 2024 did no more than match inflation. So UK citizens did not move ahead for 50 years.

"Throughout the late 1960s and 1970s, the United Kingdom was sometimes characterized as the "sick man of Europe", first by commentators, and later at home by critics of the third Wilson/Callaghan ministry due to industrial strife and poor economic performance compared with other European countries."

Joining the EU in 1973 saved the UK from total economic collapse:

Quote:

The average weekly wage in 1973 was £41.90 for a man and £23.10 for a woman, compared to £517 combined for both in 2013.

Quote:

1973 to 1975
Production stalled due to weak trade and the miners' strikes, leading to a three-day working week to save the country's electricity. Consumer spending was also down, due to high unemployment, low wages and uncertainty in the market. People's income accounts for around half of the income measure of GDP.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2024 at 6:14pm by Laugh till you cry »

Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

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Daves2017 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 966 Gender:	Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity Reply #12 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 6:21pm Leaving the EU will be a decisive factor in how England goes forward. I wish them only the best British luck but think they have chosen the road to economic disaster.
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Daves2017

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #13 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 6:27pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 6:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:31pm:

The POMs were silly -
after spending 100s of years building up an empire that gave us all the Commonwealth -
they threw it all away to join the EU.
their standard of living went down -
the average British family could no longer afford a Sunday roast dinner of Australian or NZ lamb etc. -
they had only bangers and mash and lived like Steptoe and Son.

Lovin' your music links mate

I worked in the UK 1977-1979. It was a terrible place with poverty and rubbish blowing about on the streets.

UK families could not afford roast dinners of any kind, including road kill.

Uk Wage growth from 1973 to 2024 did no more than match inflation. So UK citizens did not move ahead for 50 years.

"Throughout the late 1960s and 1970s, the United Kingdom was sometimes characterized as the "sick man of Europe", first by commentators, and later at home by critics of the third Wilson/Callaghan ministry due to industrial strife and poor economic performance compared with other European countries."

Joining the EU in 1973 saved the UK from total economic collapse:

Quote:

The average weekly wage in 1973 was £41.90 for a man and £23.10 for a woman, compared to £517 combined for both in 2013.

Quote:

1973 to 1975
Production stalled due to weak trade and the miners' strikes, leading to a three-day working week to save the country's electricity. Consumer spending was also down, due to high unemployment, low wages and uncertainty in the market. People's income accounts for around half of the income measure of GDP.

Lovin' the music you have been posting!

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Thomas A. Edison said as early as in 1931, “I’d put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don’t have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”

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Bobby.

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Re: Australian industry: High cost, low productivity
Reply #14 - Aug 13^th, 2024 at 7:23pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 6:07pm:

Bobby. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2024 at 3:31pm:

The POMs were silly -
after spending 100s of years building up an empire that gave us all the Commonwealth -
they threw it all away to join the EU.
their standard of living went down -
the average British family could no longer afford a Sunday roast dinner of Australian or NZ lamb etc. -
they had only bangers and mash and lived like Steptoe and Son.

I worked in the UK 1977-1979. It was a terrible place with poverty and rubbish blowing about on the streets.

UK families could not afford roast dinners of any kind, including road kill.

That's not what I was told in 1985.
The average POM hated the EU -
they couldn't afford the prices any more.

Australia and NZ lost a hell of a lot of our exports due to the EU -
the EU put large tariffs on our products.
Brexit eventually got the POMs out of the EU after they realised their mistake.

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