Australian Politics Forum - Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos

Laugh till you cry

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 16620
In your happy place
Gender: male

Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Aug 16^th, 2024 at 10:02am

Declining revenues of energy companies will force an increase in energy and network maintenance fees.

Energy suppliers will face increased costs from additional equipment and personnel for the monitoring and controlling of power generation to accommodate variable input of solar energy.

Excessive amounts of solar energy during peak sun times will cause grid instability and a requirement for additional equipment to sustain the ability of the grid to withstand transient loads.

Will widespread rooftop solar lead to an expensive and unreliable power supply?

Back to top

Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

IP Logged

goosecat Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 559	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #1 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48830 At my desk.	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #2 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:11pm We already have widespread grid-connected rooftop solar. It can cause problems, particularly if it is highly concentrated. Consider for example a storm band passing over a city and cutting out a lot of the solar radiation in a short period of time. It's a technical problem, with technical solutions.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Laugh till you cry

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 16620
In your happy place
Gender: male

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #3 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm

goosecat wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am:

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy.

California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value.

California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

Back to top

Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 45888 Gender:	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #4 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 5:23pm Industry doesn’t run in daylight?
Back to top	Get the vaxx! 💉💉 If you don’t like abortions ignore them like you do school shootings. IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18221
Gender: male

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #5 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 5:27pm

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

goosecat wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am:

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy.

California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value.

California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

LA...lol

Back to top

EhWVoxNXkAMHpia_003.jpg (72 KB | 8 )

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

tallowood

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 5613

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #6 - Aug 16^th, 2024 at 5:50pm

To sync solar power with a grid:
Synchronization of the solar inverter with the grid
Some inverters use a technology called phase-locked loop (PLL) to synchronize with the grid. PLL works by comparing the phase of the grid voltage with the voltage generated by the solar panels. If there is a slight difference between the two, the inverter will adjust its output to match the grid's frequency and phase.

Back to top

Reality is a figment of imagination

IP Logged

goosecat

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 559

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #7 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:32am

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

goosecat wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am:

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy.

California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value.

California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised.
We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement.
Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:51am by goosecat »

IP Logged

tallowood

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 5613

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #8 - Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm

goosecat wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

goosecat wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am:

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy.

California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value.

California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised.
We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement.
Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value.

There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical.
For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy

Back to top

Reality is a figment of imagination

IP Logged

Daves2017 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 769 Gender:	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #9 - Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:38pm Introducing the all new "sun tax"- https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/madness-to-charge-people-for-sunlight-s... Remember when the Labor state governments promise privatised electricity companies would make energy cheaper? Where is Peter Beatie and Kristan Kennerley now??
Back to top	Winston Churchill once said that: “democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.” IP Logged

Laugh till you cry Gold Member Offline Posts: 16620 In your happy place Gender:	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #10 - Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:42pm tallowood wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm: There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical. For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy Tallowood's head?
Back to top	Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me. IP Logged

tickleandrose Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4005 Gender:	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #11 - Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:50pm Fear not. Sun tariff is here! As always with private companies. When you face a problem, you raise the price. Got to love privatization.
Back to top	IP Logged

tallowood Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 5613	Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos Reply #12 - Aug 18^th, 2024 at 1:07pm Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:42pm: tallowood wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm: There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical. For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy Tallowood's head? LTYC head is needed for stinking jihad
Back to top	Reality is a figment of imagination IP Logged

goosecat

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 559

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #13 - Aug 19^th, 2024 at 10:12pm

tallowood wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 12:53pm:

goosecat wrote on Aug 17^th, 2024 at 11:32am:

Laugh till you cry wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 1:48pm:

goosecat wrote on Aug 16^th, 2024 at 11:23am:

In the short to medium term, the answer is yes. What everyone is hoping of course, is that eventually, as systems are upgraded to suit (yes at a cost obviously), it should be very cheap energy.

Solar power won't be a desirable asset until society develops a valuable application for excess energy which is otherwise wasted and which then reduces the price the solar system owner will get for energy.

California has reduced the price the grid pays for home solar input by 75%. The same is happening in Australia. Excess solar energy has zero value.

California: "The legislatively mandated review led to changes that cut the value of electricity generated by residential solar panels by 75% in the CPUC ruling, making it harder for residents to recover the cost of installing new systems. Solar arrays can carry price tags in the tens of thousands of dollars."

There's differing ideas on the priority area re future and excess energy but I think the answer lies in the most basic fundamental of that reality. In order to utilise the excess we first have to produce then capture and store it. We already know how to produce it, pretty efficiently, the capture and storage issues are yet to be adequately optimised.
We need to get battery storage efficiency and cost drastically improved through further advancement.
Once we get to a stage where all that energy can be stored and utilised as and when needed, then it has real value.

There are other ways to store energy beside electrochemical.
For example Electromechanical energy storage for storing electrical energy

Well there are a number of possibles avenues to pursue.
I thought Thermal Battery storage was going to be further developed in a faster time-frame as another economical solution for industry (effectively converting the solar energy to heat energy stored in Bricks that retain heat etc).
We need to fasten the technical advancement in storage, whatever iteration you care to concentrate on.

Back to top

IP Logged

SadKangaroo

Gold Member

Offline

#FightStupid

Posts: 16761
Mianjin (Brisbane)

Re: Grid-connected rooftop solar will lead to chaos
Reply #14 - Aug 20^th, 2024 at 7:07am

Daves2017 wrote on Aug 18^th, 2024 at 12:38pm:

Introducing the all new "sun tax"-

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/madness-to-charge-people-for-sunlight-s...

Remember when the Labor state governments promise privatised electricity companies would make energy cheaper?

Where is Peter Beatie and Kristan Kennerley now??

If you'll cast your mind back, they were only following the road paved by the Victorian Liberal state government under Kennett in the early 90s promising that by introducing competition into the electricity market, prices would decrease due to increased efficiency and market dynamics. The government and proponents of privatisation believed that private companies would operate more efficiently than the state-run system, leading to lower costs for consumers.

But let's ignore those who pioneered the practice and just blame Labor shall we?

They're not without fault, but let's not forget who started that whole thing...

Privatisation of essential services never ends well.

Back to top

IP Logged