Australian Politics Forum - Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec

Yadda

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Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Aug 23^rd, 2024 at 10:25pm

Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide electronic connectivity ?

QUESTION;
If we [all of mankind] suddenly lost [worldwide] connectivity, what kind of world would we all,
suddenly be forced to experience ?

connectivity = = the state or extent of being connected. capacity for the interconnection of platforms, systems, and applications.

I can remember a world before communication satellites and before >> instant, << worldwide [visual] tele-communications.

I can remember a world when the evening TV news would tell us about some calamity,
that had happened, somewhere in the world.

But the TV news program wouldn't be able to show any moving images of the event, from that locale,
until after the physical film arrived by aircraft, a day or two later.

I suppose that with the availability of undersea optical cables today, our dependence upon satellite [for mass] communication, is not so critical, or so vulnerable to interruption ?

But what about modern day warfare, .....and its dependence upon accurate, precise geo-location, for missile strikes [from satellite data sets] ?

Its OK building lotsa high-tek missiles.

But without access to accurate geo-location data, could their 'utility' be made redundant ?

redundant = = no longer needed or useful; superfluous.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #1 - Aug 24^th, 2024 at 3:00am

My internet was down for the last 2 weeks. It was annoying - i hadnt realised how often i google stuff. I miss the old encyclopaedia set i used to have haha. anyway i am fine except every darn business wants you to check your email. Especially for those stupid codes they send you. Apparently australia is the worst for this crap even though we have the slowest connections.

Spot

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Aurora Complexus Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 399 New South Whales Gender:	Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec Reply #2 - Oct 7^th, 2024 at 8:57pm I love the thread title
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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #3 - Oct 7^th, 2024 at 9:13pm

GPS was built by the US military, so it's tough. A huge solar flare might take it out, but military attacks probably won't.

Then there is GLONASS (Russia) and GALILEO (EU) also in quite high MEOrbits. If Russia wants to take out US cities, they have to leave GLONASS up there (and they probably don't want to declare war on the US and EU at the same time.) They could perhaps shut down GLONASS and use only an encrypted signal, but the US is strong at the high end of encyption, so this is a bad gamble.

Furthermore, strategic nuclear weapons have GPS as a "bolt on" and their legacy guidance is quite good enough to hit a city.

It's amusing to consider a return to the telegraph age, with media satellites shot down and undersea cables torn up. Grizzly old bushwalker types would still have GPS while your phone would become increasing insecure and eventually stop working.

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #4 - Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:29am

If Australia went dark (cut off from the internet), we would still survive quite capably. If the world made a concentrated effort to shut down the Australian economy, we would be somewhat "screwed". However, these days, it would only be a matter of Australians having to do our socioeconomic "boot camp" training on how to survive.

Given that I have done 4 years' worth of army reservist training in the last 30 years of my life, there is only a mild attitude adjustment that needs to be made among the spoiled brats.

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At this stage...

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec Reply #5 - Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:48am Some people need just that to spent more time with family Beside if satellite network is destroyed a enemy and people smugglers won't be able to find Australia, which is a bonus.
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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #6 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:04pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

Some people need just that to spent more time with family

https://speedify.com/wp-content/uploads/no-disconnect.png

Beside if satellite network is destroyed a enemy and people smugglers won't be able to find Australia, which is a bonus.

Internet is HOW some people spend time with family. It's been a significant connection ever since "trunk calls" made long distance telephone affordable.

As to people smugglers, it's only the high end who arrange tourist and working visas who would be inconvenienced.

International internet going down would end intercontinental phone calls, and bump the price of "long distance" phone calls (Telstra et al would need to bump prices, given the weakness of legacy systems and the progressive decay of Australian internet.)

In the nightmare scenario that there was no international internet, Australian computers and phones would STOP WORKING. Those pesky updates are actually necessary, or else the Australian internet sphere would become terribly insecure and unusable due to DoS attacks.

That is however an impossible scenario. Apple, MS etc would put their updates on flash drives and deliver them by commercial air. A day late is still quite good to keep internet devices secure.

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Setanta

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #7 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:21pm

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

Some people need just that to spent more time with family

https://speedify.com/wp-content/uploads/no-disconnect.png

Beside if satellite network is destroyed a enemy and people smugglers won't be able to find Australia, which is a bonus.

Internet is HOW some people spend time with family. It's been a significant connection ever since "trunk calls" made long distance telephone affordable.

As to people smugglers, it's only the high end who arrange tourist and working visas who would be inconvenienced.

International internet going down would end intercontinental phone calls, and bump the price of "long distance" phone calls (Telstra et al would need to bump prices, given the weakness of legacy systems and the progressive decay of Australian internet.)

In the nightmare scenario that there was no international internet, Australian computers and phones would STOP WORKING. Those pesky updates are actually necessary, or else the Australian internet sphere would become terribly insecure and unusable due to DoS attacks.

That is however an impossible scenario. Apple, MS etc would put their updates on flash drives and deliver them by commercial air. A day late is still quite good to keep internet devices secure.

Yeah I really hate that! My internet has degraded from a 2400bps SLIP connection to over 900Mbps(IE gigabit). That just sucks.

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #8 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:21pm

I used to play chess with a guy from my town. He learned to play from a Sargon (kind of chess computer) and from the first game I had to admit he was better than me. He would win roughly three of four.

The same guy introduced me to internet chess. But I didn't play him much, there. His rating was much higher than mine.

The point of the story is this: when he moved away (still in Australia) we arranged some games of postal chess. We played (if I remember) ten games simultaneously. And at postal chess I was better. Given unlimited time, and the ability to keep notes, I was the better player.

And end to international internet, would turn Australian geniuses loose on the Australian mediocrities. And Australians who still wanted to converse with foreigners, would have to adopt an essay style. Rather than the SMS style which is standard on forums. Their side of the conversation would be worth reading for anyone interested in the topic. Not just the individual they're replying to, who is obliged to read it.

We would be men and women "of letters." Anyone prepared to accept the delay involved, would necessarily be someone worth reading.

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #9 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:22pm

Setanta wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:21pm:

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

Some people need just that to spent more time with family

https://speedify.com/wp-content/uploads/no-disconnect.png

Beside if satellite network is destroyed a enemy and people smugglers won't be able to find Australia, which is a bonus.

Internet is HOW some people spend time with family. It's been a significant connection ever since "trunk calls" made long distance telephone affordable.

As to people smugglers, it's only the high end who arrange tourist and working visas who would be inconvenienced.

International internet going down would end intercontinental phone calls, and bump the price of "long distance" phone calls (Telstra et al would need to bump prices, given the weakness of legacy systems and the progressive decay of Australian internet.)

In the nightmare scenario that there was no international internet, Australian computers and phones would STOP WORKING. Those pesky updates are actually necessary, or else the Australian internet sphere would become terribly insecure and unusable due to DoS attacks.

That is however an impossible scenario. Apple, MS etc would put their updates on flash drives and deliver them by commercial air. A day late is still quite good to keep internet devices secure.

Yeah I really hate that! My internet has degraded from a 2400bps SLIP connection to over 900Mbps. That just sucks.

Not actually my point. Sure, some people aren't getting the connection they signed up for. But the hypothetical is COMPLETE SEVERANCE of the Australian internet from the world wide one.

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #10 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:28pm

I will just add, that TELSTRA SUCKS.

I used to be on TPG dialup, then TPG ADSL. But when I wanted to upgrade the connection, there were apparently "no free ports." I tried a dozen other providers, they all said "no free ports."

When finally I gave in and applied for Telstra broadband, there was no "free ports" problem. They have by legislation a lock on a share of the ports, they can just wait until customers have no choice and have to buy their over-priced service.

Also, Telstra have had ongoing problems with email. Email! This is the most basic service, which you can literally run yourself from a home server.

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Setanta

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #11 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:38pm

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:28pm:

I will just add, that TELSTRA SUCKS.

I used to be on TPG dialup, then TPG ADSL. But when I wanted to upgrade the connection, there were apparently "no free ports." I tried a dozen other providers, they all said "no free ports."

When finally I gave in and applied for Telstra broadband, there was no "free ports" problem. They have by legislation a lock on a share of the ports, they can just wait until customers have no choice and have to buy their over-priced service.

Also, Telstra have had ongoing problems with email. Email! This is the most basic service, which you can literally run yourself from a home server.

Haven't dealt with Telstra since it was sold. I had good experiences with them before that, even had the local(at the time) exchange replaced after data would not work though it at anything above 2400cps, lot's of tech arguments there with them about baud, cps and trellis encoding. Moved on with the sell off. I've been with Exetel ever since. No problems. My customer number with them is a bit below 20,000. My mobile is through Aldi and it uses the Telstra mobile network.

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #12 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 8:03pm

Setanta wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:38pm:

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:28pm:

I will just add, that TELSTRA SUCKS.

I used to be on TPG dialup, then TPG ADSL. But when I wanted to upgrade the connection, there were apparently "no free ports." I tried a dozen other providers, they all said "no free ports."

When finally I gave in and applied for Telstra broadband, there was no "free ports" problem. They have by legislation a lock on a share of the ports, they can just wait until customers have no choice and have to buy their over-priced service.

Also, Telstra have had ongoing problems with email. Email! This is the most basic service, which you can literally run yourself from a home server.

Haven't dealt with Telstra since it was sold. I had good experiences with them before that, even had the local(at the time) exchange replaced after data would not work though it at anything above 2400cps, lot's of tech arguments there with them about baud, cps and trellis encoding. Moved on with the sell off. I've been with Exetel ever since. No problems. My customer number with them is a bit below 20,000. My mobile is through Aldi and it uses the Telstra mobile network.

I've never been happier than my first year on TPG. I had something called the "nightrider" which was completely free. I even connected a 56k modem to the second line (which I had to sign up for anyway, due to other members of the household wanting to use the phone.) 112 baud, it was basically business class internet, for free.

But sadly I'm now with Telstra. I can't change, because an elderly member of the household is wedded to their email address.

Dammit, just ditch the spam, pick through your contact list and decide who you want to keep. But you can't tell old people anything.

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Setanta

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #13 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 8:13pm

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 8:03pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:38pm:

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:28pm:

I will just add, that TELSTRA SUCKS.

I used to be on TPG dialup, then TPG ADSL. But when I wanted to upgrade the connection, there were apparently "no free ports." I tried a dozen other providers, they all said "no free ports."

When finally I gave in and applied for Telstra broadband, there was no "free ports" problem. They have by legislation a lock on a share of the ports, they can just wait until customers have no choice and have to buy their over-priced service.

Also, Telstra have had ongoing problems with email. Email! This is the most basic service, which you can literally run yourself from a home server.

Haven't dealt with Telstra since it was sold. I had good experiences with them before that, even had the local(at the time) exchange replaced after data would not work though it at anything above 2400cps, lot's of tech arguments there with them about baud, cps and trellis encoding. Moved on with the sell off. I've been with Exetel ever since. No problems. My customer number with them is a bit below 20,000. My mobile is through Aldi and it uses the Telstra mobile network.

I've never been happier than my first year on TPG. I had something called the "nightrider" which was completely free. I even connected a 56k modem to the second line (which I had to sign up for anyway, due to other members of the household wanting to use the phone.) 112 baud, it was basically business class internet, for free.

But sadly I'm now with Telstra. I can't change, because an elderly member of the household is wedded to their email address.

Dammit, just ditch the spam, pick through your contact list and decide who you want to keep. But you can't tell old people anything.

Back in the day before adsl, at the school I was IT for, we ran 6 56k modems in multilink PPP.

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #14 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 10:26pm

Setanta wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 8:13pm:

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 8:03pm:

Setanta wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:38pm:

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:28pm:

I will just add, that TELSTRA SUCKS.

I used to be on TPG dialup, then TPG ADSL. But when I wanted to upgrade the connection, there were apparently "no free ports." I tried a dozen other providers, they all said "no free ports."

When finally I gave in and applied for Telstra broadband, there was no "free ports" problem. They have by legislation a lock on a share of the ports, they can just wait until customers have no choice and have to buy their over-priced service.

Also, Telstra have had ongoing problems with email. Email! This is the most basic service, which you can literally run yourself from a home server.

Haven't dealt with Telstra since it was sold. I had good experiences with them before that, even had the local(at the time) exchange replaced after data would not work though it at anything above 2400cps, lot's of tech arguments there with them about baud, cps and trellis encoding. Moved on with the sell off. I've been with Exetel ever since. No problems. My customer number with them is a bit below 20,000. My mobile is through Aldi and it uses the Telstra mobile network.

I've never been happier than my first year on TPG. I had something called the "nightrider" which was completely free. I even connected a 56k modem to the second line (which I had to sign up for anyway, due to other members of the household wanting to use the phone.) 112 baud, it was basically business class internet, for free.

But sadly I'm now with Telstra. I can't change, because an elderly member of the household is wedded to their email address.

Dammit, just ditch the spam, pick through your contact list and decide who you want to keep. But you can't tell old people anything.

Back in the day before adsl, at the school I was IT for, we ran 6 56k modems in multilink PPP.

Awesome! Did you get pushback from the school staff wanting to call out? Or did you have six lines just for IT?

Last time I was in a school, I was a teacher assistant. I was friendly with the IT guy (who was also a metalwork teacher) but he wouldn't let me anywhere near the school network. He wasn't even paid for it, it's really quite puzzling.

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #15 - Oct 9^th, 2024 at 10:59pm

Barely relevant to the thread subject, but I have an anecdote from my time as a teacher's assistant.

I was using Microsoft Wordpad to compose class lists. Using my teacher privileges, I looked up the class schedules of the individual students I was supposed to provide services to. My senior Teacher's Assistand just printed them all out, and using scissors and paste, made up a daily rota of where she should be. Which would have worked for me too, but being a bit nerdy (and shy of classrooms) I spent some of my paid time devising a spreadsheet.

My mistake was saving drafts to "the sacred K drive." Which supposedly wasn't even open to read or write, to regular teaching staff. It was the default place to save, for any teacher using Wordpad! This was a vital piece of my defense: "you're seriously saying I hacked the school computer using wordpad?"

But what really saved me from the sack, was the aforementioned IT/metalwork teacher. I guess he fell on his sword ... but of course kept his job. Thanks anyway.

Eventually I lost that job. I really wanted to hang in for one school year, but the kids went feral in the last few weeks, and I had a lapse of judgment (not intervening in a fight) and to be honest I was always a "savage and unnatural" Teacher's Assistant. I could have been great, but I needed more than one school year to "learn on the job."

It's a really crap job, for anyone considering it. You don't have the authority of a teacher, and you can't expect much support from teachers. You're supposed to "manage" the most difficult kids in the class, to take a load off the teacher.

I'm interested if anyone here has experience as a teacher's aide (or teacher's assistant.) My experience is of pain without much gain. I wouldn't say it was a waste of time. I learned a lot about children and in a few cases I think I helped them.

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tallowood

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #16 - Oct 10^th, 2024 at 11:58am

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

Some people need just that to spent more time with family

https://speedify.com/wp-content/uploads/no-disconnect.png

Beside if satellite network is destroyed a enemy and people smugglers won't be able to find Australia, which is a bonus.

Internet is HOW some people spend time with family.

The AI technology can help to do it in offline mode.

https://virtual-families.en.softonic.com/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2303740/Virtual_Families_3/

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ישראל חיה ערבים לערבים

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Aurora Complexus

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #17 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:26am

tallowood wrote on Oct 10^th, 2024 at 11:58am:

Aurora Complexus wrote on Oct 9^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 8^th, 2024 at 11:48am:

Some people need just that to spent more time with family

https://speedify.com/wp-content/uploads/no-disconnect.png

Beside if satellite network is destroyed a enemy and people smugglers won't be able to find Australia, which is a bonus.

Internet is HOW some people spend time with family.

The AI technology can help to do it in offline mode.

https://virtual-families.en.softonic.com/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2303740/Virtual_Families_3/

My virtual sister insulting a girlfriend I had twenty years ago, would be comic relief. We all know my real sister doesn't want me to have any girlfriends. She wants me to be gay.

BTW, Softonic's pitch is absolutely terrible. They spend a whole lot of words to say "our game is worse than The Sims."

And I know from hours of providing technical support to a Sims user, that THAT game really sucks.

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2024 at 12:32am by Aurora Complexus »

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Vic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8304 Melbourne Victoria Gender:	Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec Reply #18 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 9:15am I was reading about this issue today: https://www.ladbible.com/news/science/kessler-syndrome-what-is-it-internet-wifi-... I guess it is just common sense isn't it that the more stuff you fire into space the greater the congestion will become.
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Laugh till you cry

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #19 - Oct 17^th, 2024 at 9:30am

Vic wrote on Oct 17^th, 2024 at 9:15am:

I was reading about this issue today:

https://www.ladbible.com/news/science/kessler-syndrome-what-is-it-internet-wifi-...

I guess it is just common sense isn't it that the more stuff you fire into space the greater the congestion will become.

Information constipation?

The existence of Yadda and his ilk is evidence of such constipation.

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2024 at 9:54am by Laugh till you cry »

Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Could we be vulnerable to loss of worldwide connec
Reply #20 - Oct 19^th, 2024 at 2:52pm

Vic wrote on Oct 17^th, 2024 at 9:15am:

I was reading about this issue today:

https://www.ladbible.com/news/science/kessler-syndrome-what-is-it-internet-wifi-...

I guess it is just common sense isn't it that the more stuff you fire into space the greater the congestion will become.

Yep ... soon they'll need to send up the garbage collection satellites ... when they empty the septic out into space .... does it ever break down at all?

"Ah - Houston - we've had a problem!"

"What is your problem, Thirteen?"

"Our windows... have all turned brown..... can't seem to see..... why... wait one while we run a test..."

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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