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Bruce Highway closed (Read 1279 times)
tallowood
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #15 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 1:10pm
 
Terrorist attack in Oklahoma City, U.S in 1995 used homemade bomb composed of more than two tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil concealed in a rental truck.
...

Judging by the crater size on Bruce Hwy there have to be much more then 2 tons of ammonium nitrate.
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chimera
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #16 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 1:51pm
 
The tanker was carrying 42 tonnes of ammonium nitrate.

'Darwin. 19 Feb 42.
Heavy raids, 50 tons of bombs dropped. 243 killed, 350 wounded. Two ships set on fire, one blown up damaging the pier. Six ships sunk and seven more damaged;  three Catalina aircraft destroyed and two US vessels destroyed. Post and telegraph offices destroyed, police station, barracks, cable office, and government offices destroyed and hospital damaged. RAAF hospital, recreation hall, equipment store, many houses and living quarters destroyed.'

Queensland Nitrates Pty Ltd, Moura Gladstone, produces 185,000 tonnes of explosive grade ammonium nitrate for use in the production of explosives for the mining industry.
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John_Taverner
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #17 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 9:48am:
Whatever method they used to store it, I think they did a reasonable job. It did not explode until several hours after the crash, and no-one was killed by the explosion. If you propose that this stuff be mixed onsite, you would have to demonstrate that this would be safer overall, not just safer on the road. Would people be more likely do die on the minesite by trying to mix it there?

Probably less likely to happen in a 'downtown' area as the vehicles would not have been travelling as fast, so less damage.

Someone has now died after being struck by a vehicle on the detour route. So you could possibly attribute that to the explosion.


A couple of issues there. Shots on minesites are only set by qualified people, usually always from the supplier. Emulsion is usually only used for wet boreholes and is manufactured off site. I have no issues with the transport other than the route taken. They could have easily bypassed major cities.

B-Doubles containing Dangerous Goods are given designated routes.  They are not allowed to go "downtown".  As for slower speeds, remind me what the speed limit on the Gateway Motorway is again? There have already been Hazmat incidents on that route, and it's probably a matter of time before emulsion is involved.

The death of the ute driver was instantaneous. The accident was probably due to not driving to conditions (both vehicles) and the thick fog at the time. If it had been anything other than explosives, the ongoing consequences would not have been so serious.

They had to evacuate Bororen at very short notice. One resident came back to find a piece of truck embedded in her house.

What I'm saying is that the potential consequences could have been much worse. It was fortunate that  there was very little wind in this case,  and it was blowing away from population centres. (think clouds of NOx blowing across Carindale or Rochedale)
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« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:35pm by John_Taverner »  
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #18 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:26pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 10:07am:
'In Queensland, ammonium nitrate emulsions are declared as an explosive under the Explosives Regulation 2017 and are treated as blasting explosives of Class 5.1'.
In Qld possession of fireworks by unlicensed persons constitutes a breach of the legislation. A penalty in excess of $52 220 and six months imprisonment can apply. Do not drive your car into an exploding truck.


Explosives are Class 1.  AN Emulsion are Class 5.1, which is "Oxidising Substances".

Moura is not in Gladstone, and there are two producers of Ammonium Nitrate in Central Queensland.
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #19 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:44pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 9:20am:
The decision was made many years ago to classify it as an oxidiser, as opposed to an explosive. After all, it was only going to be transported a short distance to the minesites.

Thank goodness for that. The Highway and humans would just be oxidised, for a short distance.  A crater of oxidise. Bruce oxide. (Not a greenhouse gas)
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tallowood
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #20 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:49pm
 
Using explosives in mining  Shocked

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chimera
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #21 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 3:26pm
 
Gladstone soil is Aluminum Oxide, Iron Oxide, Potassium Oxide,  Sodium Oxide, Silicon Dioxide, Magnesium oxide and Calcium oxide.  Nothing changes when it's oxidised.
Road tar contains between 50% to 90% carbon. The Bruce crater has about 30 sq m of tar oxidised, with bitumen 80mm depth, 2.4 cu.m, of 95 percent stone, sand and gravel and just 5 percent asphalt. It lost 1 cu.m, say .08 cu.m carbon. 1 cu m of carbon weighs 2 266 kilograms so 190kg. CO2 weight is about 4 times carbon,  760 kg C02.
An average truck emits 223 tons of CO2 per annum, 300 times the explosion's CO2. The explosion was environmentally friendly, added nitrogen to the soil and removed a polluting truck from emitting 70 tons CO2 the rest of this year.
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #22 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:33pm
 
tallowood wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 1:10pm:
Terrorist attack in Oklahoma City, U.S in 1995 used homemade bomb composed of more than two tonnes of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil concealed in a rental truck.


https://iili.io/dOctCn2.md.png

Judging by the crater size on Bruce Hwy there have to be much more then 2 tons of ammonium nitrate.


The crater was off the side of the road ... not in the middle of it.

The truck had gone bush.
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Gnads
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #23 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:40pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 1:51pm:
The tanker was carrying 42 tonnes of ammonium nitrate.

'Darwin. 19 Feb 42.
Heavy raids, 50 tons of bombs dropped. 243 killed, 350 wounded. Two ships set on fire, one blown up damaging the pier. Six ships sunk and seven more damaged;  three Catalina aircraft destroyed and two US vessels destroyed. Post and telegraph offices destroyed, police station, barracks, cable office, and government offices destroyed and hospital damaged. RAAF hospital, recreation hall, equipment store, many houses and living quarters destroyed.'

Queensland Nitrates Pty Ltd, Moura Gladstone, produces 185,000 tonnes of explosive grade ammonium nitrate for use in the production of explosives for the mining industry.


So if the ammonium nitrate was being made in Moura - in the heart of mining territory - what was a tanker of it doing on the Bruce Highway near Bororen? Obviously not mining explosives but soil injectable fertilizer.

Liquid ammonium nitrate is used as a fertilizer .. not an addition to explosives for mining. How would they accurately place the right amount of liquid down a deep hole?

It its solid form it's called "urea"it has always been a fertilizer & used in mining explosives.

Just don't go into to Bunnings and buy more than 1 bag at a time.  Grin
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« Last Edit: Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:49pm by Gnads »  

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Gnads
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #24 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:44pm
 
John_Taverner wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:07pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 9:48am:
Whatever method they used to store it, I think they did a reasonable job. It did not explode until several hours after the crash, and no-one was killed by the explosion. If you propose that this stuff be mixed onsite, you would have to demonstrate that this would be safer overall, not just safer on the road. Would people be more likely do die on the minesite by trying to mix it there?

Probably less likely to happen in a 'downtown' area as the vehicles would not have been travelling as fast, so less damage.

Someone has now died after being struck by a vehicle on the detour route. So you could possibly attribute that to the explosion.


A couple of issues there. Shots on minesites are only set by qualified people, usually always from the supplier. Emulsion is usually only used for wet boreholes and is manufactured off site. I have no issues with the transport other than the route taken. They could have easily bypassed major cities.

B-Doubles containing Dangerous Goods are given designated routes.  They are not allowed to go "downtown".  As for slower speeds, remind me what the speed limit on the Gateway Motorway is again? There have already been Hazmat incidents on that route, and it's probably a matter of time before emulsion is involved.

The death of the ute driver was instantaneous. The accident was probably due to not driving to conditions (both vehicles) and the thick fog at the time. If it had been anything other than explosives, the ongoing consequences would not have been so serious.

They had to evacuate Bororen at very short notice. One resident came back to find a piece of truck embedded in her house.

What I'm saying is that the potential consequences could have been much worse. It was fortunate that  there was very little wind in this case,  and it was blowing away from population centres. (think clouds of NOx blowing across Carindale or Rochedale)


They don't use ammonium nitrate emulsions on mine sites. They use they solid pelletized form aka urea.
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #25 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:46pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 3:26pm:
Gladstone soil is Aluminum Oxide, Iron Oxide, Potassium Oxide,  Sodium Oxide, Silicon Dioxide, Magnesium oxide and Calcium oxide.  Nothing changes when it's oxidised.
Road tar contains between 50% to 90% carbon. The Bruce crater has about 30 sq m of tar oxidised, with bitumen 80mm depth, 2.4 cu.m, of 95 percent stone, sand and gravel and just 5 percent asphalt. It lost 1 cu.m, say .08 cu.m carbon. 1 cu m of carbon weighs 2 266 kilograms so 190kg. CO2 weight is about 4 times carbon,  760 kg C02.
An average truck emits 223 tons of CO2 per annum, 300 times the explosion's CO2. The explosion was environmentally friendly, added nitrogen to the soil and removed a polluting truck from emitting 70 tons CO2 the rest of this year.


What a load of bollocks.
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #26 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:52pm
 
Gnads wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:44pm:
They don't use ammonium nitrate emulsions on mine sites. They use they solid pelletized form aka urea.

Urea is for the pot plants. 'Ammonium nitrate (AN) emulsions, suspensions and gels (UN 3375 mixtures) are transferred at the mine into MPUs for blending with various sensitisers to convert the UN 3375 mixture into Class 1 explosives. Most commonly the mixture is converted in the blast hole'.
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chimera
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #27 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:55pm
 
Gnads wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:46pm:
What a load of bollocks.

True. All of it. There was no explosion, just processing of tar into CO2. Bruce has the pic of the hole in his highway.
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #28 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 7:27pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:55pm:
Gnads wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 6:46pm:
What a load of bollocks.

True. All of it. There was no explosion, just processing of tar into CO2. Bruce has the pic of the hole in his highway.


Ammonium nitrate does not explode by it's self normally(not decomposing), as an oxidiser it needs a fuel. If the truck crashed spilt AN and leaked diesel, you have 2 elements of an explosion, all you need is an ignition. The video in this link clearly shows an explosive pattern from where the truck is and the fires spread around show that hot things enough to cause fires were thrown around.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13802989/bruce-highway-closed-truck-bor...

...
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chimera
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Re: Bruce Highway closed
Reply #29 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 8:00pm
 
Nothing to see here, just gum trees oxidising their flammable eucalypts.  Trucks get rusty. Especially cattle trucks loaded with urea. Closed containers may rupture violently or detonate if heated. May detonate if subjected to strong shocks, such as from an explosion. Ammonium nitrate of any grade, including fertilizer grade should be considered, especially when mixed with oil, charcoal, or other organic materials, an explosive capable of detonation by the combustion or explosion of adjacent materials.
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