Australian Politics Forum - Conservatives against trump

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42221	Re: Conservatives against trump Reply #30 - Sep 9^th, 2024 at 9:13pm
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47261 Gender:	Re: Conservatives against trump Reply #31 - Sep 9^th, 2024 at 9:49pm Brian Ross wrote on Sep 9^th, 2024 at 9:13pm: https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img641/9394/yawnr.gif Bbwian is thinking deeply and communicating it very effectively. Education - you must marvel...
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SadKangaroo

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #32 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 7:14am

If Putin's objective is to see his preferred candidate reinstated in the White House (Trump), what more effective strategy could he employ than a seemingly ironic endorsement of the opponent? It’s a classic tactic of misdirection.

Given Russia’s longstanding investment in right-wing influencers and media personalities, this fits seamlessly within their broader geopolitical agenda. As evidenced by figures like Frank, this strategy is proving effective, particularly among a subset of conservatives who lack the critical reasoning to see beyond the manipulation.

This is precisely why so many genuine conservatives, prioritising national integrity over partisan loyalty, are now aligning themselves with Harris.

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Frank

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #33 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 7:14am:

If Putin's objective is to see his preferred candidate reinstated in the White House (Trump), what more effective strategy could he employ than a seemingly ironic endorsement of the opponent? It’s a classic tactic of misdirection.

Given Russia’s longstanding investment in right-wing influencers and media personalities, this fits seamlessly within their broader geopolitical agenda. As evidenced by figures like Frank, this strategy is proving effective, particularly among a subset of conservatives who lack the critical reasoning to see beyond the manipulation.

This is precisely why so many genuine conservatives, prioritising national integrity over partisan loyalty, are now aligning themselves with Harris.

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74932 Gender:	Re: Conservatives against trump Reply #34 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:27am Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am: In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin? What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20?? Trump has already said he will stop aid to Ukraine
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Frank

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #35 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:35am

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:27am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

Trump has already said he will stop aid to Ukraine Roll Eyes

What was ACTUALLY proposed:

WASHINGTON, June 25 (Reuters) - Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.

The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, one of Trump's national security advisers, said in an interview.

Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.

They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added. "I'm not claiming he agreed with it or agreed with every word of it, but we were pleased to get the feedback we did," he said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/

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John Smith

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #36 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:45am

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:35am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:27am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

Trump has already said he will stop aid to Ukraine Roll Eyes

What was ACTUALLY proposed:

WASHINGTON, June 25 (Reuters) - Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.

The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, one of Trump's national security advisers, said in an interview.

Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.

They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added. "I'm not claiming he agreed with it or agreed with every word of it, but we were pleased to get the feedback we did," he said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/

No, that is a plan someone else came up with and was handed to Trump for consideration. He has at no point said he was going to follow through with it despite the rights media moppets attempting to paint it as a done and dusted policy position.

This on the other hand is something Trump definitely did say

Quote:

Former U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday blasted the scale of U.S. support for Ukraine and said that if he is reelected in November he would immediately "have that settled."

At a campaign rally in Detroit, Trump criticized Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, calling him “the greatest salesman of all time” for Kyiv’s push to secure U.S. support in its effort to defend Ukraine against Russian aggression more than three years after Moscow's all-out invasion.

“He just left four days ago with $60 billion, and he gets home, and he announces that he needs another $60 billion. It never ends,” Trump said.

“I will have that settled prior to taking the White House as president-elect,” said Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee in the U.S. election.

good try

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #37 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:10am

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:35am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:27am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

Trump has already said he will stop aid to Ukraine Roll Eyes

What was ACTUALLY proposed:

WASHINGTON, June 25 (Reuters) - Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.

The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, one of Trump's national security advisers, said in an interview.

Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.

They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added. "I'm not claiming he agreed with it or agreed with every word of it, but we were pleased to get the feedback we did," he said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/

trump lies about everything. For his followers that is ok. For me it makes him untrustworthy.
It does not matter what he says about anything, he would well be lying. He often does.

Quote:

......... "I'm not claiming he agreed with it or agreed with every word of it, but we were pleased to get the feedback we did," he said. ..............

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine...

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #38 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:25am

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 7:14am:

If Putin's objective is to see his preferred candidate reinstated in the White House (Trump), what more effective strategy could he employ than a seemingly ironic endorsement of the opponent? It’s a classic tactic of misdirection.

Given Russia’s longstanding investment in right-wing influencers and media personalities, this fits seamlessly within their broader geopolitical agenda. As evidenced by figures like Frank, this strategy is proving effective, particularly among a subset of conservatives who lack the critical reasoning to see beyond the manipulation.

This is precisely why so many genuine conservatives, prioritising national integrity over partisan loyalty, are now aligning themselves with Harris.

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

I honestly can't believe you need to ask that...

From Trump's Presidency (from what I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure the full list is much longer):

Trump's Personal Relationship with Putin: Trump consistently expressed admiration for Vladimir Putin. He frequently praised Putin's leadership style and downplayed Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, despite US intelligence agencies confirming that Russia had indeed meddled in the election.

Helsinki Summit: Trump siding with Putin over his own intelligence agencies regarding Russian election interference.

NATO: Trump often criticised NATO, questioning the US's commitment to the alliance. Since NATO is a strategic counterbalance to Russian influence in Europe, Trump's criticisms were beneficial to Russia.

Withdrawal from Syria: Trump's decision to pull US troops out of parts of Syria which was a geopolitical win for Russia, which had backed the Assad regime.

Sanctions: While some sanctions against Russia were imposed during Trump’s presidency (often pressured by Congress), Trump himself was reluctant to take punitive measures and spoke out against it.

You compare that to Biden:

Firm Stand on Ukraine: The Biden administration has strongly supported Ukraine during Russia’s full scale invasion in 2022. Biden led a global effort to rally NATO allies, imposed harsh sanctions on Russia, and provided billions of dollars in military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Trump wants to end aid to Ukraine.

Sanctions: Biden imposed the most sweeping sanctions on Russia in modern history following its invasion of Ukraine. These sanctions target key sectors of the Russian economy, oligarchs, and Putin’s inner circle, with the goal of isolating Russia economically and diplomatically.

Support for NATO: Biden reaffirmed US commitments to NATO and emphasised strengthening the alliance. Under his administration, NATO countries have increased their military presence in Eastern Europe in response to Russian aggression.

Diplomacy: Biden has been openly critical of Putin, calling him a “war criminal” and accusing him of committing atrocities in Ukraine. Biden’s administration views Russia as a direct threat to Western democracies, contrasting sharply with Trump continually praising him.

Trump would not only refuse to criticise Russia and Putin, but he was accommodating towards them, siding with them over his own intelligence agencies and pushing back against sanctions.

He even praised Purin when he invaded Ukraine,

“I went in yesterday, and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine ... Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.”

Where have you been?

The side that you say will be walked all over by Putin and Russia are the side that stood up to him.

Trump was acting like he was another right wing influencer on their payroll...

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Frank

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #39 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:44am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:10am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:35am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:27am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

Trump has already said he will stop aid to Ukraine Roll Eyes

What was ACTUALLY proposed:

WASHINGTON, June 25 (Reuters) - Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.

The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine, retired Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, one of Trump's national security advisers, said in an interview.

Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.

They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added. "I'm not claiming he agreed with it or agreed with every word of it, but we were pleased to get the feedback we did," he said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/

trump lies about everything. For his followers that is ok. For me it makes him untrustworthy.
It does not matter what he says about anything, he would well be lying. He often does.

Quote:

......... "I'm not claiming he agreed with it or agreed with every word of it, but we were pleased to get the feedback we did," he said. ..............

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine...

Soooo..... where's the lie?

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Frank

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #40 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:46am

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:25am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 7:14am:

If Putin's objective is to see his preferred candidate reinstated in the White House (Trump), what more effective strategy could he employ than a seemingly ironic endorsement of the opponent? It’s a classic tactic of misdirection.

Given Russia’s longstanding investment in right-wing influencers and media personalities, this fits seamlessly within their broader geopolitical agenda. As evidenced by figures like Frank, this strategy is proving effective, particularly among a subset of conservatives who lack the critical reasoning to see beyond the manipulation.

This is precisely why so many genuine conservatives, prioritising national integrity over partisan loyalty, are now aligning themselves with Harris.

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

I honestly can't believe you need to ask that...

From Trump's Presidency (from what I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure the full list is much longer):

Trump's Personal Relationship with Putin: Trump consistently expressed admiration for Vladimir Putin. He frequently praised Putin's leadership style and downplayed Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, despite US intelligence agencies confirming that Russia had indeed meddled in the election.

Helsinki Summit: Trump siding with Putin over his own intelligence agencies regarding Russian election interference.

NATO: Trump often criticised NATO, questioning the US's commitment to the alliance. Since NATO is a strategic counterbalance to Russian influence in Europe, Trump's criticisms were beneficial to Russia.

Withdrawal from Syria: Trump's decision to pull US troops out of parts of Syria which was a geopolitical win for Russia, which had backed the Assad regime.

Sanctions: While some sanctions against Russia were imposed during Trump’s presidency (often pressured by Congress), Trump himself was reluctant to take punitive measures and spoke out against it.

You compare that to Biden:

Firm Stand on Ukraine: The Biden administration has strongly supported Ukraine during Russia’s full scale invasion in 2022. Biden led a global effort to rally NATO allies, imposed harsh sanctions on Russia, and provided billions of dollars in military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Trump wants to end aid to Ukraine.

Sanctions: Biden imposed the most sweeping sanctions on Russia in modern history following its invasion of Ukraine. These sanctions target key sectors of the Russian economy, oligarchs, and Putin’s inner circle, with the goal of isolating Russia economically and diplomatically.

Support for NATO: Biden reaffirmed US commitments to NATO and emphasised strengthening the alliance. Under his administration, NATO countries have increased their military presence in Eastern Europe in response to Russian aggression.

Diplomacy: Biden has been openly critical of Putin, calling him a “war criminal” and accusing him of committing atrocities in Ukraine. Biden’s administration views Russia as a direct threat to Western democracies, contrasting sharply with Trump continually praising him.

Trump would not only refuse to criticise Russia and Putin, but he was accommodating towards them, siding with them over his own intelligence agencies and pushing back against sanctions.

He even praised Purin when he invaded Ukraine,

“I went in yesterday, and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine ... Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.”

Where have you been?

The side that you say will be walked all over by Putin and Russia are the side that stood up to him.

Trump was acting like he was another right wing influencer on their payroll...

Are you saying that the current US/ NATO strategy is working?

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #41 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:48am

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:46am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 9:25am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 7:14am:

If Putin's objective is to see his preferred candidate reinstated in the White House (Trump), what more effective strategy could he employ than a seemingly ironic endorsement of the opponent? It’s a classic tactic of misdirection.

Given Russia’s longstanding investment in right-wing influencers and media personalities, this fits seamlessly within their broader geopolitical agenda. As evidenced by figures like Frank, this strategy is proving effective, particularly among a subset of conservatives who lack the critical reasoning to see beyond the manipulation.

This is precisely why so many genuine conservatives, prioritising national integrity over partisan loyalty, are now aligning themselves with Harris.

In what way, shape or form is Biden or Harris a threat to Putin?

What advantage did Putin get with a Trump presidency during 2017-20??

I honestly can't believe you need to ask that...

From Trump's Presidency (from what I can remember off the top of my head, I'm sure the full list is much longer):

Trump's Personal Relationship with Putin: Trump consistently expressed admiration for Vladimir Putin. He frequently praised Putin's leadership style and downplayed Russia's interference in the 2016 US election, despite US intelligence agencies confirming that Russia had indeed meddled in the election.

Helsinki Summit: Trump siding with Putin over his own intelligence agencies regarding Russian election interference.

NATO: Trump often criticised NATO, questioning the US's commitment to the alliance. Since NATO is a strategic counterbalance to Russian influence in Europe, Trump's criticisms were beneficial to Russia.

Withdrawal from Syria: Trump's decision to pull US troops out of parts of Syria which was a geopolitical win for Russia, which had backed the Assad regime.

Sanctions: While some sanctions against Russia were imposed during Trump’s presidency (often pressured by Congress), Trump himself was reluctant to take punitive measures and spoke out against it.

You compare that to Biden:

Firm Stand on Ukraine: The Biden administration has strongly supported Ukraine during Russia’s full scale invasion in 2022. Biden led a global effort to rally NATO allies, imposed harsh sanctions on Russia, and provided billions of dollars in military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine. Trump wants to end aid to Ukraine.

Sanctions: Biden imposed the most sweeping sanctions on Russia in modern history following its invasion of Ukraine. These sanctions target key sectors of the Russian economy, oligarchs, and Putin’s inner circle, with the goal of isolating Russia economically and diplomatically.

Support for NATO: Biden reaffirmed US commitments to NATO and emphasised strengthening the alliance. Under his administration, NATO countries have increased their military presence in Eastern Europe in response to Russian aggression.

Diplomacy: Biden has been openly critical of Putin, calling him a “war criminal” and accusing him of committing atrocities in Ukraine. Biden’s administration views Russia as a direct threat to Western democracies, contrasting sharply with Trump continually praising him.

Trump would not only refuse to criticise Russia and Putin, but he was accommodating towards them, siding with them over his own intelligence agencies and pushing back against sanctions.

He even praised Purin when he invaded Ukraine,

“I went in yesterday, and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius.’ Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine ... Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.”

Where have you been?

The side that you say will be walked all over by Putin and Russia are the side that stood up to him.

Trump was acting like he was another right wing influencer on their payroll...

Are you saying that the current US/ NATO strategy is working?

Changing the goalposts away from "what advantage did Putin get from Trump's presidency" the moment that question was answered.

Very telling.

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Frank

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #42 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 10:13am

The current US/NATO strategy is not working. It certainly does not stop Putin or the war.
Who benefits from it, other than arms manufacturers? Nobody.
Who loses from it? Ukrainians and Western tax payers.
Who would benefit from a ceasefire and negotiations? Ukrainians and Western taxpayers.
Who wants an end to this war? Trump. But that, somehow, is being Putin's puppet.
Crazy.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #43 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 10:41am

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 10:13am:

The current US/NATO strategy is not working. It certainly does not stop Putin or the war.
Who benefits from it, other than arms manufacturers? Nobody.
Who loses from it? Ukrainians and Western tax payers.
Who would benefit from a ceasefire and negotiations? Ukrainians and Western taxpayers.
Who wants an end to this war? Trump. But that, somehow, is being Putin's puppet.
Crazy.

That's some interesting mental gymnastics there.

Trump wants to end aid to Ukraine and has been supportive of Putin's actions in many way so far.

His admiration for Putin and criticism of US support for Ukraine has led to interpretations that he may be more favourable towards Russia's position in the conflict.

So what, he wants to end the war by having Putin win?

He's made no indication otherwise, in fact to the contrary.

So again, that's in Putin's favour...

Not helping your case.

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Karnal

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Re: Conservatives against trump
Reply #44 - Sep 10^th, 2024 at 11:12am

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

Frank wrote on Sep 10^th, 2024 at 10:13am:

The current US/NATO strategy is not working. It certainly does not stop Putin or the war.
Who benefits from it, other than arms manufacturers? Nobody.
Who loses from it? Ukrainians and Western tax payers.
Who would benefit from a ceasefire and negotiations? Ukrainians and Western taxpayers.
Who wants an end to this war? Trump. But that, somehow, is being Putin's puppet.
Crazy.

That's some interesting mental gymnastics there.

Trump wants to end aid to Ukraine and has been supportive of Putin's actions in many way so far.

His admiration for Putin and criticism of US support for Ukraine has led to interpretations that he may be more favourable towards Russia's position in the conflict.

So what, he wants to end the war by having Putin win?

He's made no indication otherwise, in fact to the contrary.

So again, that's in Putin's favour...

Not helping your case.

Now now, Sad, back in 2016, the old boy was a naughty old Marxist. We need to crush the ESTABLISHMENT, he said. Now?

He's a peacenik. Ban the bomb, he says. USA go home. Ukraine can go suck Vlad's cock.

That's the old boy for you. He's a little bit shifty.

DEEP STATE !!!

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