Australian Politics Forum - Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.

steve9

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Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Sep 12^th, 2024 at 11:00pm

ABC24 morning news journalist covering Melbourne protests suggestions that protests are good for democracy protesting expresses free speech, same time criticising protesters violence.
Programs like ABC QandA and cancelled “The Drum” having many guests telling listeners what to think, often easily remembered frequently repeated many one line short statement phrases same positive ideas heard many times, become the easily repeated memories, people court out for something to say during times of people gathering together for conversations, when some person starts serious conversation as though they’re expressing intelligence, people use remembered statements to compete and or defend their self-perceived intelligence.

School education behavioural conditioning forces children to compete with each other. During early primary school schooling to answer teacher QandA game sessions where children had little more than three seconds to answer teacher questions. Three second time limits to answer teacher questions programs children to hurry memorising data to answer questions.
All the way through schooling children are told what to do, giving children no time to think, children are told what to remember for tests, children must be ready to answer questions when placed on the spot to answer questions otherwise be seen by other children as being slow to react dumb.
Children are prevented from talking to each other in classrooms, long hours of being in classrooms confined in seats unable to get up and move around, performing government education department controlled information work tasks, enduring hours of stress, by the time children leave classrooms, brains feel need to instinctively want to avoid intelligent conversations, are more likely to be simple minded short statement specialised on few topics conversationalist, social media headline readers, picture watchers, sports active.

Children are mentally fatigued by the end of each school day, similar limited intelligence behaviours for all remaining non school days. People believing free speech is real are themselves merely repeating what media are stating in short statements. Media are merely expressing ideas about stuff that doesn’t effect people’s lives to want to think about or that some expressed idea can’t to easily fixed exampling: housing shortages; wars in distant countries; people criticising politicians; freakish stories.
A belief in free speech prevents individual thought from realising my frequently mentioned topic, “RBA increasing interest rates are causing increased inflation, causing businesses to increase prices to cover increases finance costs and that reduced business turnover due to consumer reduced demand, reduced sales turnover forces businesses to increase prices to cover reduced turnover earnings, otherwise close down businesses”, because many businesses don’t close or increases prices, incentives other than profit making ideology is keeping many businesses open for business.

I am sure many parents with a sense of free speech frequently complain to school principles that their children aren’t learning anything, that their children’s bad socialising behaviours are worsening, accusing school education as the problem, yet government ministers and QandA forums blame a luck of teachers and luck of budgeted money. NAPLAN test results supports parents arguments, instead of being accused by parents of hiding poor learning issues.

ABC QandA program, audience members are handed cards with questions to be asked from program guest experts, that the mere idea questions are formulated by producers, QandA panel members are scripted with producers desired answers, not placed on the spot to answer based on believed knowledge.

There is no free speech when the only people allowed to express ideas are corporate paid people expert at following known propaganda responses.

Media entertainment are produced and directed with the intent of limiting audiences ability to think: Crime; murder stories; 1950s 1960s Western Cowboy John Wayne etc. movies… limit audiences opportunities to witness new ideas, people should be more concerned with understanding new ideas, yet often due to work fatigue are happy to watch same easy to understand quick flashing or too slow meaningless scenes, being prompted to laugh when hearing canned laughter, being stimulated into awareness by freak show entertainment.

Long before 1790s French revolution ruling, royal and rich glasses placed under the guillotine blade ruling classes have been fearful of poor working class people rebelling against ruling class authority to rule.
Here in this free speech citizenry belief in democracy, I say most all educated by government curriculum citizenry which have been told through media, parliament politicians campaigns are financed by private donations, donators whom may want their ideas expressed in government policies, donators often corporate support both parties. I strongly suggest, the two party democracy system is really a single party divided into two sides poor thinking people believe each party keeps the other party honest, constantly seen arguing with each other, insulting each other’s behaviours, fooling neanderthal fight and flight intelligence using pointless arguments, providing political media forums with something to report.

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steve9

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #1 - Sep 12^th, 2024 at 11:12pm

My point being periods within history of common working class rebellion, I strongly suggest all media are under control of a finance providing rich class using invented bank credits. As Channel 10 during several times was believed insolvent, channel 10 continued broadcasting as though nothing changed.
My local television commercial channels’ 20 minutes of advertising time for every 60 minutes of programmed time, I see many chocolate product advertisements: M&Ms; Cadbury chocolates; Cadbury Favourites; etc. also many future programs appearing on the same channel as though there were no other advertisers, several channels devoted to advertising products had a limited number of items continuously being promoted.
The very early years of commercial television, commercials promoting Aeroplane Jelly and Vegemite, how much advertisement cost financing television stations allowing said company sales to make profits?

Even though commentators state prime time channel programs are said to be cheep to produce that government laws require prime channels programs to be Australian made, other channels show foreign programs, programs scripts control how humans think by mere distraction from calm time to experience prompted self-awareness thinking, causation of constant need for distractions to block degrees of depression awareness prevents many humans from experiencing thought.

I recon program advertisements aren’t really financing programs, that limiting human intelligence by controlling human entertainment financed with invented bank credits are little difference than boring multi billion dollar tunnels underground to build railways and roads in cities noting Sydney to inject wages into workers ability to finance servicing debt and living costs.
60 years ago, Australia was an automobile manufacturing country, now Australia is more an inner city office building data processing work force, few services other than banking and insurance require enough data services to replace 1960s to its end manufacturing automobile industries, so I recon inventing bank credits to aid paying for imported goods lost bank credits, by eroding money value using inflation I say RBA interest rate increases are causing. That the entertainment industry is a full on subsidised industry propaganda machine, controlling how citizenry don’t think instead what citizenry believe.

School education teachers children to remember short streams of data spelling words etc., ‘not to think’ only what has been remembered. Much of what have been forced to be remembered by youth have little need for reasoning out ideas to experience thought. Once children remember data, data during questioning exams and teacher inquiry answer expressions have time limits, forcing children to answer using memory rather than to think out answers similar to “The 1% Club” only the program questions use more calculation based on limited practices.

Schooling’s 13 years of limited learning behaviours memory and hurrying time limits to answer questions, stress self-medication using self-awareness of getting answers correct many students believe good grades are indications of intelligence, adult life, believing every idea known to be truthful, when beliefs are conflicted to believed knowledge, exampling “no person has walked on the moon surface” people become feeling aware “fear of falling into or worsening depression awareness, I say caused by school learning stress traumas”, humans feeling school question has been answered incorrectly, fearing further awareness, reject the idea “no person walked on the moon” rather than inquire how such evidence exists, troubled by the dilemma of answering quickly, find relief in believing ‘man has walked on the moon’.
Mental illness within citizenry further aids citizenry believing in media propaganda, the fear of unaccustomed torturous thought worsening existing mental illness learning traumas, brings on learnt tactics to hold back awareness of depression bad feelings.
People suffering from bipolar, old name for manic depression, when prompting such people to think, person feels like they’re in school classrooms being prompted to answer a question they can’t quickly respond to, feeling fears of being embarrassed, feeling fears of being incorrect, feeling fears of panic, add the feeling of teachers adding more work tasks to already over whelming work responding with repressed anger, outside of school classrooms persons easily get angry hence why such people are bipolar, persons wanting to laugh self-medication, suddenly become angry when prompted to think.

If “family violence” an often spoken about awareness topic with no known media stated reasons, above paragraph is one example conclusion.

There’s no free speech because few people have an ability to realise the obvious when the obvious makes people feel worse than they already are and or the obvious creates fear of unwanted unaccustomed thoughts as felt during school education years, avoiding knowledge such as wars are often intentional ruling class conspiracies to adjust populations to a more manageable food resource state.

steve9

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #2 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:55am

You raise a lot of valid points.

While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.

This, perhaps, explains the animosity directed towards such institutions by those who benefit from maintaining a population that is compliant and uncritical. Institutions that foster independent thought are viewed as threats by the very powers that would prefer a workforce of obedient, unquestioning individuals. Thus, they exploit societal divisions and label these bastions of intellectual growth with derogatory terms such as 'woke factories,' 'liberal indoctrination camps,' 'echo chambers,' and 'Marxist breeding grounds,' all as part of a broader strategy of control.

In fact, for students pursuing a science-based path even during their senior years of high school, the foundation for critical thinking is already being established. The emphasis shifts from rote memorisation to the comprehension of complex concepts, the resolution of intricate problems, and the formation of reasoned conclusions grounded in empirical evidence.

It is easy to criticise the system from a position of limited exposure, particularly if one’s education ceases at a more basic level. However, those who continue their education often acquire the intellectual tools necessary to not only see through propaganda but also to critically evaluate and interpret the world around them. Ironically, the same system that is often criticised is the very one that equips individuals with the cognitive framework to question its authority effectively. Higher education does more than impart knowledge,it teaches individuals how to think. And in that lies true empowerment.

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality. Reply #3 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:11am Is free speech tax deductible like free dinner and entertainment?
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Frank

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #4 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:27am

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:55am:

You raise a lot of valid points.

While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.

This, perhaps, explains the animosity directed towards such institutions by those who benefit from maintaining a population that is compliant and uncritical. Institutions that foster independent thought are viewed as threats by the very powers that would prefer a workforce of obedient, unquestioning individuals. Thus, they exploit societal divisions and label these bastions of intellectual growth with derogatory terms such as 'woke factories,' 'liberal indoctrination camps,' 'echo chambers,' and 'Marxist breeding grounds,' all as part of a broader strategy of control.

In fact, for students pursuing a science-based path even during their senior years of high school, the foundation for critical thinking is already being established. The emphasis shifts from rote memorisation to the comprehension of complex concepts, the resolution of intricate problems, and the formation of reasoned conclusions grounded in empirical evidence.

It is easy to criticise the system from a position of limited exposure, particularly if one’s education ceases at a more basic level. However, those who continue their education often acquire the intellectual tools necessary to not only see through propaganda but also to critically evaluate and interpret the world around them. Ironically, the same system that is often criticised is the very one that equips individuals with the cognitive framework to question its authority effectively. Higher education does more than impart knowledge,it teaches individuals how to think. And in that lies true empowerment.

There is no intellectual diversity or rigour or depth of learning and thinking in university humanities and social 'science' faculties. Nor in high schools. For those subjects.

Questioning the race, gender, green, multiculti orthodoxies is career ending for academics and professional staff. Students are ostracised if they do not toe the line.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #5 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:29am

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:27am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:55am:

You raise a lot of valid points.

While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.

This, perhaps, explains the animosity directed towards such institutions by those who benefit from maintaining a population that is compliant and uncritical. Institutions that foster independent thought are viewed as threats by the very powers that would prefer a workforce of obedient, unquestioning individuals. Thus, they exploit societal divisions and label these bastions of intellectual growth with derogatory terms such as 'woke factories,' 'liberal indoctrination camps,' 'echo chambers,' and 'Marxist breeding grounds,' all as part of a broader strategy of control.

In fact, for students pursuing a science-based path even during their senior years of high school, the foundation for critical thinking is already being established. The emphasis shifts from rote memorisation to the comprehension of complex concepts, the resolution of intricate problems, and the formation of reasoned conclusions grounded in empirical evidence.

It is easy to criticise the system from a position of limited exposure, particularly if one’s education ceases at a more basic level. However, those who continue their education often acquire the intellectual tools necessary to not only see through propaganda but also to critically evaluate and interpret the world around them. Ironically, the same system that is often criticised is the very one that equips individuals with the cognitive framework to question its authority effectively. Higher education does more than impart knowledge,it teaches individuals how to think. And in that lies true empowerment.

There is no intellectual diversity in university humanities and social 'science' faculties. Nor in high schools. For those subjects.

Questioning the race, gender, green, multiculti orthodoxies is career ending for academics and professional staff. Students are ostracised if they do not toe the line.

You're an example of the very type of person I was talking about.

A living breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and still so desperate to be thought of as correct that the truth no longer matters.

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Frank

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #6 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:39am

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:27am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:55am:

You raise a lot of valid points.

While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.

This, perhaps, explains the animosity directed towards such institutions by those who benefit from maintaining a population that is compliant and uncritical. Institutions that foster independent thought are viewed as threats by the very powers that would prefer a workforce of obedient, unquestioning individuals. Thus, they exploit societal divisions and label these bastions of intellectual growth with derogatory terms such as 'woke factories,' 'liberal indoctrination camps,' 'echo chambers,' and 'Marxist breeding grounds,' all as part of a broader strategy of control.

In fact, for students pursuing a science-based path even during their senior years of high school, the foundation for critical thinking is already being established. The emphasis shifts from rote memorisation to the comprehension of complex concepts, the resolution of intricate problems, and the formation of reasoned conclusions grounded in empirical evidence.

It is easy to criticise the system from a position of limited exposure, particularly if one’s education ceases at a more basic level. However, those who continue their education often acquire the intellectual tools necessary to not only see through propaganda but also to critically evaluate and interpret the world around them. Ironically, the same system that is often criticised is the very one that equips individuals with the cognitive framework to question its authority effectively. Higher education does more than impart knowledge,it teaches individuals how to think. And in that lies true empowerment.

There is no intellectual diversity in university humanities and social 'science' faculties. Nor in high schools. For those subjects.

Questioning the race, gender, green, multiculti orthodoxies is career ending for academics and professional staff. Students are ostracised if they do not toe the line.

You're an example of the very type of person I was talking about.

A living breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and still so desperate to be thought of as correct that the truth no longer matters.

I actually worked in universities in senior positions for decades. I speak from first hand experience.

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Frank

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #7 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:40am

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:27am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:55am:

You raise a lot of valid points.

While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.

This, perhaps, explains the animosity directed towards such institutions by those who benefit from maintaining a population that is compliant and uncritical. Institutions that foster independent thought are viewed as threats by the very powers that would prefer a workforce of obedient, unquestioning individuals. Thus, they exploit societal divisions and label these bastions of intellectual growth with derogatory terms such as 'woke factories,' 'liberal indoctrination camps,' 'echo chambers,' and 'Marxist breeding grounds,' all as part of a broader strategy of control.

In fact, for students pursuing a science-based path even during their senior years of high school, the foundation for critical thinking is already being established. The emphasis shifts from rote memorisation to the comprehension of complex concepts, the resolution of intricate problems, and the formation of reasoned conclusions grounded in empirical evidence.

It is easy to criticise the system from a position of limited exposure, particularly if one’s education ceases at a more basic level. However, those who continue their education often acquire the intellectual tools necessary to not only see through propaganda but also to critically evaluate and interpret the world around them. Ironically, the same system that is often criticised is the very one that equips individuals with the cognitive framework to question its authority effectively. Higher education does more than impart knowledge,it teaches individuals how to think. And in that lies true empowerment.

There is no intellectual diversity in university humanities and social 'science' faculties. Nor in high schools. For those subjects.

Questioning the race, gender, green, multiculti orthodoxies is career ending for academics and professional staff. Students are ostracised if they do not toe the line.

You're an example of the very type of person I was talking about.

A living breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and still so desperate to be thought of as correct that the truth no longer matters.

I actually worked in universities in senior positions for decades. I speak from first hand experience.

Needless to say, the DK effect does not mean what you think or imply it to mean

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chimera

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #8 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:47am

There is one area of censored dogma. It's forbidden for unis to discuss Indigenous tribal culture and 'oldest continuous culture'. I'm told explicitly that academics fear funding cuts if they do. There's a move in NSW Premier's dept to block publication of Aboriginals' cultural knowledge without direct consent by concerned elders to give a right to tell stories. Newspapers have complied. This includes a block on quoting websites of deceased Aboriginals, without elder consent.

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #9 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 12:08pm

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:39am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:29am:

Frank wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 11:27am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13^th, 2024 at 9:55am:

You raise a lot of valid points.

While it is true that the education system is shaped and influenced by those in positions of power, it is important to recognise that higher education, particularly at the university level, is where the cultivation of critical thinking is most rigorously pursued. Universities serve as environments where individuals are not merely encouraged but required to challenge established ideas, question underlying assumptions, and engage with a diverse array of perspectives.

This, perhaps, explains the animosity directed towards such institutions by those who benefit from maintaining a population that is compliant and uncritical. Institutions that foster independent thought are viewed as threats by the very powers that would prefer a workforce of obedient, unquestioning individuals. Thus, they exploit societal divisions and label these bastions of intellectual growth with derogatory terms such as 'woke factories,' 'liberal indoctrination camps,' 'echo chambers,' and 'Marxist breeding grounds,' all as part of a broader strategy of control.

In fact, for students pursuing a science-based path even during their senior years of high school, the foundation for critical thinking is already being established. The emphasis shifts from rote memorisation to the comprehension of complex concepts, the resolution of intricate problems, and the formation of reasoned conclusions grounded in empirical evidence.

It is easy to criticise the system from a position of limited exposure, particularly if one’s education ceases at a more basic level. However, those who continue their education often acquire the intellectual tools necessary to not only see through propaganda but also to critically evaluate and interpret the world around them. Ironically, the same system that is often criticised is the very one that equips individuals with the cognitive framework to question its authority effectively. Higher education does more than impart knowledge,it teaches individuals how to think. And in that lies true empowerment.

There is no intellectual diversity in university humanities and social 'science' faculties. Nor in high schools. For those subjects.

Questioning the race, gender, green, multiculti orthodoxies is career ending for academics and professional staff. Students are ostracised if they do not toe the line.

You're an example of the very type of person I was talking about.

A living breathing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and still so desperate to be thought of as correct that the truth no longer matters.

I actually worked in universities in senior positions for decades. I speak from first hand experience.

It is profoundly disheartening, considering your tenure in academia, to witness such a glaring lack of intellectual integrity.

Despite decades of experience in a senior academic role, it appears that intellectual dishonesty remains prevalent.

What could have transpired to lead to this?

Unless you weren't a part of their academic departments and in a more behind the scenes faculty role. But even so, by proximity, I would have expected more.

Although my own academic journey was limited to a Master’s and a Bachelor’s, which sufficed for my purposes, we were nevertheless instilled with the importance of critical analysis and the discernment of fact from fallacy, particularly within the sciences.

While I hold great respect and even a degree of envy for those who, having left school after Year 10 for a trade, are able to acquire their first home by the age of 25, at least within my circle of friends, those who chose that path lack the nuanced reasoning skills. This has been highlighted by their engagement with dubious content, such as the misinformation about square blood cells and other COVID related BS on Facebook.

As an aside to the broader discussion on education and our differing views, it is pertinent to recognise that, at least within the Australian context, our right to free speech is not explicitly guaranteed but merely implied.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11652 armidale Gender:	Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality. Reply #10 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 12:50pm Another example is Peter Ridd who was sacked from James Cook uni for abnormal views on the barrier reef and for misconduct. The judge said James Cook University had "not understood the whole concept of intellectual freedom".
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Frank

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #11 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 1:17pm

This is a typical expression of the academic mindset in the humanities:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0031322X.2021.2014087

Look at any English, journalism, history course curriculum and unit descriptions. Go on any campus at o week (orientation week). Look at the research interests of humanities academics on their university websites.

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« Last Edit: Sep 13^th, 2024 at 1:23pm by Frank »

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chimera

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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #12 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 2:48pm

Here's some interesting logic by Sydney uni academics. They object to Hungary's blocking a university so they block Ramsay. It's right-wing..

'Among the core values ostensibly defended by this University are intellectual freedom to run its programs.[..] Unfortunately, you also flout those freedoms by implying, in your email to staff and presumably in your letter to the Ramsay Centre, consent by the University’s academic community to a proposal that will lead to entrenchment of a hard-right political agenda within our programs. So, let us be clear: we do not consent.'
http://ramsayoffcampus.org/

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 105564 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality. Reply #13 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 3:16pm
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11652 armidale Gender:	Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality. Reply #14 - Sep 13^th, 2024 at 3:53pm So that's revenue, not profit. 195 countries with fines at 5% each is $.
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