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Free Speech More Myth Than Reality. (Read 1557 times)
Bobby.
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #15 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:56pm
 
chimera wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:53pm:
So that's revenue, not profit. 195 countries with fines at 5% each is $.



And who decides what is misinformation?
The Govt. does -
like their safe and effective vaccines  ummmmm. Undecided


...
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chimera
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #16 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 4:23pm
 
Sometimes (not in Oz) a minister resigns for misleading parliament, on the facts. Judges decide on defamation. Academics can be fined for fraud in publications.  Maybe blocking an academic opinion is fraud.
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John Smith
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #17 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 5:30pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 11:39am:
I actually worked in universities in senior positions for decades..


Head janitor were you  Roll Eyes
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #18 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 5:39pm
 


1984  George Orwell

https://www.abhafoundation.org/assets/books/html/1984/139.html

The alteration of the past is necessary for two reasons, one of which is subsidiary and, so to speak, precautionary. The subsidiary reason is that the Party member, like the proletarian, tolerates present-day conditions partly because he has no standards of comparison. He must be cut off from the past, just as he must be cut off from foreign countries, because it is necessary for him to believe that he is better off than his ancestors and that the average level of material comfort is constantly rising. But by far the more important reason for the readjustment of the past is the need to safeguard the infallibility of the Party. It is not merely that speeches, statistics, and records of every kind must be constantly brought up to date in order to show that the predictions of the Party were in all cases right. It is also that no change in doctrine or in political alignment can ever be admitted. For to change one's mind, or even one's policy, is a confession of weakness. If, for example, Eurasia or Eastasia (whichever it may be) is the enemy today, then that country must always have been the enemy. And if the facts say otherwise then the facts must be altered. Thus history is continuously rewritten. This day-to-day falsification of the past, carried out by the Ministry of Truth, is as necessary to the stability of the regime as the work of repression and espionage carried out by the Ministry of Love.
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #19 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 5:48pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:56pm:
chimera wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:53pm:
So that's revenue, not profit. 195 countries with fines at 5% each is $.



And who decides what is misinformation?
The Govt. does -
like their safe and effective vaccines  ummmmm. Undecided


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/166/118/428/original/af126c...


While I'd vote for Labor over the current Libs or Nats, I still don't want any government having this power.

I think misinformation is a huge problem, this forum is a testament to that, but it's not the government who should be the arbiters of it.

The cost of free speech is letting the lying pricks, like bobby and co, say whatever they want.
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chimera
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #20 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 6:16pm
 
ACCC is fairly close to the problem in handling misleading advertising.
Compliance and enforcement strategy
To achieve our compliance objectives, we use 4 flexible and integrated strategies:

'encouraging compliance with the law, particularly by educating and informing consumers and traders about their rights and responsibilities under the Fair Trading Act.
enforcement of the law, including resolution of possible contraventions both administratively and by litigation and other formal enforcement outcomes'.
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Bobby.
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #21 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 6:28pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 5:48pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:56pm:
chimera wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:53pm:
So that's revenue, not profit. 195 countries with fines at 5% each is $.



And who decides what is misinformation?
The Govt. does -
like their safe and effective vaccines  ummmmm. Undecided


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/166/118/428/original/af126c...


While I'd vote for Labor over the current Libs or Nats, I still don't want any government having this power.

I think misinformation is a huge problem, this forum is a testament to that, but it's not the government who should be the arbiters of it.

The cost of free speech is letting the lying pricks, like bobby and co, say whatever they want.



Are you a Marxist?

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1660808671/1170
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Frank
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #22 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 6:37pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 5:48pm:
Bobby. wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:56pm:
chimera wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 3:53pm:
So that's revenue, not profit. 195 countries with fines at 5% each is $.



And who decides what is misinformation?
The Govt. does -
like their safe and effective vaccines  ummmmm. Undecided


https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/166/118/428/original/af126c...


While I'd vote for Labor over the current Libs or Nats, I still don't want any government having this power.

I think misinformation is a huge problem, this forum is a testament to that, but it's not the government who should be the arbiters of it.

The cost of free speech is letting the lying pricks, like bobby and co, say whatever they want.



Nothing, absolutely nothing would turn you away from Labor.


I voted for Keating in '96 and couldn't understand why anyone voted for Howard. I even admired Whitlam.  (I was young and naive, like Gillard).
By '07 I couldn't understand how anyone could be taken in by Kevni. 




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Brian Ross
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #23 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 6:40pm
 
Australians have never had a right to Freedom of Speech.  The best they have had is an implied right in it's constituion as found by the High Court in the early 1990s.  They have enjoyed Freedom of Speech only since the 1970s. Before that they were subject to censorship, severe censorship.  Don Chipp ended that, though.
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
WWW  
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chimera
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #24 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:04pm
 
There is still no right and some censorship continues.
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #25 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:26pm
 
I don't support Labor, it's just Dutton and their current platform is worse.

It's the lesser of two evils, not a matter of support.

But sure, hyperfixate on that rather than the topic of the thread.
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Frank
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #26 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:39pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 6:40pm:
Australians have never had a right to Freedom of Speech.  The best they have had is an implied right in it's constituion as found by the High Court in the early 1990s.  They have enjoyed Freedom of Speech only since the 1970s. Before that they were subject to censorship, severe censorship.  Don Chipp ended that, though.

They??

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Frank
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #27 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:40pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:26pm:
I don't support Labor, it's just Dutton and their current platform is worse.

It's the lesser of two evils, not a matter of support.

But sure, hyperfixate on that rather than the topic of the thread.

So did you support ScoMo, Turnbull, Abbott, Howard?


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chimera
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #28 - Sep 13th, 2024 at 7:52pm
 
Musk was supported about the Sydney church stabbing video.
'Justice Kennett ruled that a global ban would not be considered a “reasonable” step – required by Australian law – because it would likely “be ignored or disparaged in other countries”.'
The fascists are now on the money.
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Frank
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Re: Free Speech More Myth Than Reality.
Reply #29 - Sep 14th, 2024 at 11:00am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 13th, 2024 at 12:08pm:
It is profoundly disheartening, considering your tenure in academia, to witness such a glaring lack of intellectual integrity.

Despite decades of experience in a senior academic role, it appears that intellectual dishonesty remains prevalent. 
What could have transpired to lead to this?
...
As an aside to the broader discussion on education and our differing views, it is pertinent to recognise that, at least within the Australian context, our right to free speech is not explicitly guaranteed but merely implied.


If an engineering academic recklessly or deliberately misled students about how to build a bridge, Australians would not just expect that academic to be sacked; they would want to know, and would want every academic to know, that intellectual standards were being rigorously enforced.

Now, however, Mark Scott, the vice-chancellor of Sydney University, has decided that Professor Sujatha Fernandes, who told her students that reports of Hamas committing mass rapes on October 7 were “fake news”, will escape with the slightest rap of the world’s lightest feather-duster.

How making statements that are demonstrably false can be anything other than a serious breach of the university’s requirement that academics respect the “highest ethical, professional and legal standards” is a mystery.

It is, after all, the very purpose of a university to encourage the pursuit and dissemination of knowledge: that is, of claims that can reasonably be held to be true. And it is no accident that the modern university’s emergence coincided with the rise of the notion that a commitment to the value of the truth, and of truthfulness in research and teaching, was academics’ foremost obligation.
...
That, Max Weber famously argued, was the entirety of academic freedom: the freedom to dispassionately seek, and equally dispassionately teach, the truth, with all partisanship abandoned – and even the slightest step beyond that transformed teaching into preaching, losing every protection academic freedom afforded.

No one could claim that Weber’s lofty ideals were always realised. But the ethic of objectivity proved crucial in the spectacular advances that marked every field of knowledge. Directly, it greatly enhanced the calibre of academic activity; indirectly, it provided users of research with quality assurance, facilitating the acceptance of controversial results.

Yet it has collapsed, most notably in the humanities and parts of the social sciences, to the point where Australia’s oldest, and once most prestigious, university considers purveying gross falsehoods a trivial offence.
...
It would be easy, but largely incorrect, to blame that collapse on writers such as Jacques Derrida, Michel Foucault or Pierre Bourdieu. Rather, as Daniel Gordon and Nathalie Heinich have argued, the crucial factor was the rise, initially in North American universities, of centres – such as those dedicated to black, indigenous and women’s studies – that regarded advocacy as integral to their mission.

It was the growing tension that created with the ethic of objectivity, which abjured advocacy, that made the traditional academic virtues increasingly contentious. The arrival on the scene of Derrida, Foucault and Bourdieu therefore filled a need – a need, felt by activist academics in the English-speaking world, for intellectual legitimacy.

That those writers were comprehensively panned in France itself, where philosophy is taken seriously, scarcely mattered. To cite but one example, Jacques Bouveresse, undoubtedly the leading French epistemologist of his generation, dismissed Derrida’s work as nonsense.

Much as he may deride the concept of “the truth”, wrote Bouveresse, even Derrida, as he jets from conference to conference, needs to know whether it is indeed true that his flight leaves next Wednesday at three, rather than Thursday at five. And Bouveresse also showed that Foucault, who claimed to stand on Nietzsche’s shoulders, had grievously “mistranslated, misrepresented and misunderstood” everything Nietzsche had to say.

But what mattered to the activists was that Derrida, Foucault and Bourdieu argued that scholarship was inherently political. “Objectivity”, they contended, was a mere fig leaf for the interests of the ruling class.

Properly considered, the truth of a claim depended neither on how it was derived nor on its relationship to reality. It depended, wrote vastly influential American postmodernist Hayden White, on whether it was made from the right moral – that is, political – “standpoint”.

The way was therefore open to the development of what is now known as “standpoint epistemology”, which, in its most popular version, asserts that a proposition’s truth depends on the identity of its proponent. That is, of course, scarcely an inch away from Stalinism’s “proletarian science”, not to mention the Nazis’ “Aryan mathematics”. And if that epistemology was good enough for Stalin and Hitler, why wouldn’t it be good enough for Hamas and its taxpayer-funded acolytes?
...
In a situation where consensus is elusive, the stringent quality assurance the rules of objectivity provide may well be the only thing that permits some shared understanding of reality to emerge – and with it, a shared appreciation of the constraints reality imposes.
Henry Ergas
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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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