Australian Politics Forum - Lowering the age of crim responsibility

Gnads

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #165 - Oct 24^th, 2024 at 9:41am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 5:47pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:26pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18^th, 2024 at 5:43pm:

I'm 75 and apart from a developing cataract my vision is near perfect still. Need reading glasses for keyboard stuff but not to view screen or television just over arm's length away.

And neither of you are interested in how to avoid war via effective international law... ok, a tough nut to crack.

Nor how to eradicate entrenched poverty and its associated crime - admittedly also tough, given the current neoclassical economic orthodoxy.

The Conservative solutions: war - shoot them; poverty-related crime - lock'em up...though did I see you referencing re-training in a later post, as opposed to 'lock'em up'?

That's progress.

International law never stopped a single conflict.

But international law could - if supported by all the members of the UNSC enforcing adjudication of disputes between nations by the ICJ - stop all wars between nations.

Just as poverty-related crime can be eradicated, if government had the will to eradicate poverty.

Quote:

there is little to no choice left but to place that offender in a program to properly guide him/her in the paths of righteousness..... (hoo-rah) .

A correct statement; do I detect some contempt for that course of action?

The old woulda, shoulda, coulda ey?

Just waffle,waffle, waffle.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #166 - Oct 24^th, 2024 at 12:51pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2024 at 8:21pm:

It's all down to the neo-con ideology I tells yez.

"neo-con ideology" - war as a dispute settlement mechanism?

(See how you ignore the post to which you somehow imagine you are replying).

Quote:

People can't be given personal sovereignty and responsibility, and the state must not be paternalistic.

1. Personal sovereignty is a delusion if there is more than one person in the world. (I see you have learned nothing form the 'sovereign citizen' debate. Deplorable).

2. People can't be "given" personal responsibilty, they must be taught it, via good role models.

3. Establishment of rule of law - "paternalistic" or not (to avoid chaos) is vital.

See how incompetent your powers of analysis are...

Quote:

You wee little Fascist you **tweaks his cheek**

You accused the UNSC of being a wet lettuce leaf, now you are accusing it of being "fascist" if it adopts the power to enforce the law and maintain the peace.

Your mental incompetence revealed again.

Quote:

By what right does the UN declare war on Israel and seek to murder its head man?

By UN res. 181, ie international law, which the madman Netanyahu thinks he can spurn in favour of genocide.

Quote:

Are you a mad fascist? What makes you think murdering Netty would cause Israel to give up defending itself?

Many in Israel (not Conservative ideologues and religious nutters) want peace via the establishment of the Palestinian State, as delineated in UN res 181 representing international law.

Re "defending itself": the creation of Israel was the original offence to Palestinians; therefore Israel should seek protection by a "fascist" UNSC acting to enforce the UN law which created Israel.

Quote:

You are talking madness.

Says the "might is right" bully who believes genocide, rather than international law, will fix it.

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« Last Edit: Oct 24^th, 2024 at 1:08pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #167 - Oct 24^th, 2024 at 1:13pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 9:41am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 5:47pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:26pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18^th, 2024 at 5:43pm:

I'm 75 and apart from a developing cataract my vision is near perfect still. Need reading glasses for keyboard stuff but not to view screen or television just over arm's length away.

And neither of you are interested in how to avoid war via effective international law... ok, a tough nut to crack.

Nor how to eradicate entrenched poverty and its associated crime - admittedly also tough, given the current neoclassical economic orthodoxy.

The Conservative solutions: war - shoot them; poverty-related crime - lock'em up...though did I see you referencing re-training in a later post, as opposed to 'lock'em up'?

That's progress.

International law never stopped a single conflict.

But international law could - if supported by all the members of the UNSC enforcing adjudication of disputes between nations by the ICJ - stop all wars between nations.

Just as poverty-related crime can be eradicated, if government had the will to eradicate poverty.

Quote:

there is little to no choice left but to place that offender in a program to properly guide him/her in the paths of righteousness..... (hoo-rah) .

A correct statement; do I detect some contempt for that course of action?

The old woulda, shoulda, coulda ey?

Exactly: endless wars and entrenched poverty can, should and need to be eradicated.

Quote:

Just waffle,waffle, waffle.

How to eradicate war and poverty isn't waffle, except to mental incompetents.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17678 Gender:	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #168 - Oct 24^th, 2024 at 1:58pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 12:51pm: 3. Establishment of rule of law - "paternalistic" or not (to avoid chaos) is vital. And recidivism should not result in incarceration. Got it.
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Gnads

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #169 - Oct 24^th, 2024 at 2:52pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 1:13pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 9:41am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 5:47pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:26pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18^th, 2024 at 5:43pm:

I'm 75 and apart from a developing cataract my vision is near perfect still. Need reading glasses for keyboard stuff but not to view screen or television just over arm's length away.

And neither of you are interested in how to avoid war via effective international law... ok, a tough nut to crack.

Nor how to eradicate entrenched poverty and its associated crime - admittedly also tough, given the current neoclassical economic orthodoxy.

The Conservative solutions: war - shoot them; poverty-related crime - lock'em up...though did I see you referencing re-training in a later post, as opposed to 'lock'em up'?

That's progress.

International law never stopped a single conflict.

But international law could - if supported by all the members of the UNSC enforcing adjudication of disputes between nations by the ICJ - stop all wars between nations.

Just as poverty-related crime can be eradicated, if government had the will to eradicate poverty.

Quote:

there is little to no choice left but to place that offender in a program to properly guide him/her in the paths of righteousness..... (hoo-rah) .

A correct statement; do I detect some contempt for that course of action?

The old woulda, shoulda, coulda ey?

Exactly: endless wars and entrenched poverty can, should and need to be eradicated.

Quote:

Just waffle,waffle, waffle.

How to eradicate war and poverty isn't waffle, except to mental incompetents.

There's been thousands of greater minds than thou over the centuries - they didn't seem to do anything to eradicate war.

Waffle waffle waffle.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #170 - Oct 25^th, 2024 at 9:53am

lee wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 1:58pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 12:51pm:

3. Establishment of rule of law - "paternalistic" or not (to avoid chaos) is vital.

And recidivism should not result in incarceration. Got it. Wink

As usual, the Conservatine inability to understand causes rears its head.

Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them.

But I was talking about establishment of international law, to avoid war as a dispute settlement mechanism between nations, in the age of MAD.

Do try to keep up.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #171 - Oct 25^th, 2024 at 10:02am

Gnads wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 2:52pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 1:13pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 24^th, 2024 at 9:41am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 5:47pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:46pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 21^st, 2024 at 4:26pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 18^th, 2024 at 5:43pm:

I'm 75 and apart from a developing cataract my vision is near perfect still. Need reading glasses for keyboard stuff but not to view screen or television just over arm's length away.

And neither of you are interested in how to avoid war via effective international law... ok, a tough nut to crack.

Nor how to eradicate entrenched poverty and its associated crime - admittedly also tough, given the current neoclassical economic orthodoxy.

The Conservative solutions: war - shoot them; poverty-related crime - lock'em up...though did I see you referencing re-training in a later post, as opposed to 'lock'em up'?

That's progress.

International law never stopped a single conflict.

But international law could - if supported by all the members of the UNSC enforcing adjudication of disputes between nations by the ICJ - stop all wars between nations.

Just as poverty-related crime can be eradicated, if government had the will to eradicate poverty.

Quote:

there is little to no choice left but to place that offender in a program to properly guide him/her in the paths of righteousness..... (hoo-rah) .

A correct statement; do I detect some contempt for that course of action?

The old woulda, shoulda, coulda ey?

Exactly: endless wars and entrenched poverty can, should and need to be eradicated.

Quote:

Just waffle,waffle, waffle.

How to eradicate war and poverty isn't waffle, except to mental incompetents.

There's been thousands of greater minds than thou over the centuries - they didn't seem to do anything to eradicate war.

Actually the world almost eradicated international war in 1946 (at the beginning of the age of MAD), when most of the delegates from smaller countries present at the creation of the UN Charter accepted Doc Evatt's idea of an UNSC without veto power.

But neanderthal mental incompetents in the US and USSR delegations demanded the veto...preserving the ancient 'might is right' system.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #172 - Oct 25^th, 2024 at 12:15pm

... and so avoided the situation of every pissy little third world backward country continuing to do the same things it always has, tribal conflicts and genocides - while claiming to be active participants in world peace... I can just imagine the Arab states holding the peace with Israel..... I can just Imagine Rwanda times many while the UN 'army' stands by and says they can't be involved in an internal dispute. I can just imagine North Korea not trying to invade South Korea and then China being involved in it... I can just imagine a peaceful solution to Vietnamese Reunion over a cup of tea and then some... no never-ending attacks on Kurds Druze and Maronites etc ... and no Confrontation by the saintly Indonesia against Malaysia ... no armed attempt by Argentina to take The Falklands ... and a lot more....

It's all talk and no action... EVERY one of your saintly small countries, some of which have grown to The First World, has murdered its own citizens and engaged in wars with neighbours and with groups within its own borders .. let's hear it from you now to tell us that they were pushed to it by the Big Countries.

Naivety is no excuse for fomenting death and destruction.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #173 - Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:11pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 25^th, 2024 at 12:15pm:

... and so avoided the situation of every pissy little third world backward country continuing to do the same things it always has, tribal conflicts and genocides -

Not avoided, BECAUSE of your conflicted ideology and confusion about (and rejection of) international rule of law ; you accuse the UNSC of being a 'wet lettuce', yet you demand each member follows its own sovereignty rather than (the sovereignty of) international rule of law..

You are certainly playing with fire in the age of MAD - as well as the current Israeli genocide in Gaza.

Quote:

while claiming to be active participants in world peace...

That's egg-head lawyers for you, trying to work around the insane concept of "legal" war....while the IDF claims it's not bombing civilians, but terrorists....

Quote:

I can just imagine the Arab states holding the peace with Israel.....

If the UNSC had enforced UN res 181 in 1947, the Arab states would be at peace with Israel by now.

Quote:

I can just Imagine Rwanda times many while the UN 'army' stands by and says they can't be involved in an internal dispute.

If the colonizers had handed-back power after establishing functioning indigenous economies, internal disputes would have been settled via the ballot box, not civil war.

Quote:

I can just imagine North Korea not trying to invade South Korea and then China being involved in it...

Er, did you forget Korea isn't one nation today - unlike Vietnam - because the US lost in Vietnam, compared to 'half' winning in Korea (a stalemate) .

Quote:

I can just imagine a peaceful solution to Vietnamese Reunion over a cup of tea and then some... no never-ending attacks on Kurds Druze and Maronites etc ... and no Confrontation by the saintly Indonesia against Malaysia ... no armed attempt by Argentina to take The Falklands ... and a lot more....

As noted above, all because of lack of effective international law, in which you are complicit - with your obsolete 'sovereignty' delusions.

Quote:

It's all talk and no action...

Indeed it is: let me show you a UNSC that's action and not talk....

Quote:

Naivety is no excuse for fomenting death and destruction.

Nice try graps - but don't look in the mirror right now; effective rule of law prevents fomentation of death and destruction.

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« Last Edit: Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:17pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17678 Gender:	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #174 - Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:49pm thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 25^th, 2024 at 9:53am: Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them. So Kids who have never been locked up can't be recidivists?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #175 - Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm

lee wrote on Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1728677423/170#170 date=1729814039]Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them.

Quote:

So Kids who have never been locked up can't be recidivists? Grin

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

Poor Lee - still mentally crippled ...

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Gnads

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #176 - Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

lee wrote on Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1728677423/170#170 date=1729814039]Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them.

Quote:

So Kids who have never been locked up can't be recidivists? Grin

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

Poor Lee - still mentally crippled ...

That's only legalese manipulation of the system.

Coming before the court time and again and being let off and no conviction recorded .... does not mean the child or youth is not a criminal recidivist.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #177 - Oct 27^th, 2024 at 1:03pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

lee wrote on Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1728677423/170#170 date=1729814039]Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them.

Quote:

So Kids who have never been locked up can't be recidivists? Grin

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

Poor Lee - still mentally crippled ...

That's only legalese manipulation of the system.

Coming before the court time and again and being let off and no conviction recorded .... does not mean the child or youth is not a criminal recidivist.

Again, the Conservative lack of understanding of causes:

Kids don't get hauled before the courts for no reason.

The problem is egghead lawyers have no understanding of why the kids keep appearing in court (socioeconomic disadvantage, poor role models), AND how to deal with it (including retraining or re-education of kids).

Even "adult crime, adult time" Crisafulli's policy on youth crime includes retraining to give the kids a chance (as he said in his victory speech last night).

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« Last Edit: Oct 27^th, 2024 at 1:16pm by thegreatdivide »

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lee

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #178 - Oct 27^th, 2024 at 2:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

You confuse "committing a crime" with a sentence for committing a crime.

"One who falls back into prior habits, especially criminal habits; a repeat offender.

Nothing to do with being sentenced. Roll Eyes

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 84767 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #179 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 4:05am Just toying with yez here .. posters for me coming movie project:-
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged