Australian Politics Forum - Lowering the age of crim responsibility

SadKangaroo

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #180 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:17am

lee wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 2:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

You confuse "committing a crime" with a sentence for committing a crime.

"One who falls back into prior habits, especially criminal habits; a repeat offender.

Nothing to do with being sentenced. Roll Eyes

Funny how quickly the notion of innocent until proven guilty evaporates when skin colour changes.

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Gnads

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #181 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:18am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 1:03pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

lee wrote on Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1728677423/170#170 date=1729814039]Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them.

Quote:

So Kids who have never been locked up can't be recidivists? Grin

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

Poor Lee - still mentally crippled ...

That's only legalese manipulation of the system.

Coming before the court time and again and being let off and no conviction recorded .... does not mean the child or youth is not a criminal recidivist.

Again, the Conservative lack of understanding of causes:

Kids don't get hauled before the courts for no reason.

The problem is egghead lawyers have no understanding of why the kids keep appearing in court (socioeconomic disadvantage, poor role models), AND how to deal with it (including retraining or re-education of kids).

Even "adult crime, adult time" Crisafulli's policy on youth crime includes retraining to give the kids a chance (as he said in his victory speech last night).

Brilliant deduction Watson .... durrrrh. Roll Eyes

Retraining ey?

And that's not been tried before? No boot camps?
No taking troubled youth out bush?

You need to take a look at a 2015 documentary called - Back Track Boys.

It's about a program that run in Armidale NSW for wayward boys who have been in trouble with the law ... both white and Aboriginal....

each boy is given a dog to train to do obstacle course and high wall jumps/climbs and they go around region country competing and demonstrating.

Quite a few boys look to be turning themselves around then go falling back into trouble and back to jail.

Quote:

Story
A group of troubled boys are on a perilous course towards jail until they meet up with the free-wheeling jackaroo, Bernie Shakeshaft, and hit the road with his legendary dog jumping team.
This observational documentary, filmed over two years, follows boys in a youth program that Bernie runs from a shed on the outskirts of Armidale, a rural town in Australia. On the road, the boys find their voice, make great friendships and the dogs become national champions. But as the boy’s sleep under the stars at night the trauma is never too far away.
With their survival and futures at stake they must constantly step up, push themselves, support each other and some days can be hard. This inspiring coming of age story reveals the challenges and triumphs these boys face as they try to find their place in the world, and the dogs that help tame their wild ways.

https://documentaryaustralia.com.au/project/backtrack-boys/

As has been said to you countless times all these softly softly programs have been going on for decades..... and there's still no great level of success.

They know right from wrong but continue to take the wrong path.

You are still just alll waffle, waffle, waffle.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #182 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:21am

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:17am:

lee wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 2:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

You confuse "committing a crime" with a sentence for committing a crime.

"One who falls back into prior habits, especially criminal habits; a repeat offender.

Nothing to do with being sentenced. Roll Eyes

Funny how quickly the notion of innocent until proven guilty evaporates when skin colour changes.

That's just Horse shyte.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6048	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #183 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 9:40am Lowering the age of criminal responsibility makes crime statistic to look worse.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84738 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #184 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 11:59am tallowood wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 9:40am: Lowering the age of criminal responsibility makes crime statistic to look worse. Only if the currently unrecorded convictions are included - and they may be already. Check!!
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17673 Gender:	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #185 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:12pm SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:17am: Funny how quickly the notion of innocent until proven guilty evaporates when skin colour changes. Funny how a crime isn't a crime until someone is convicted.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #186 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:26pm

lee wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 2:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

You confuse "committing a crime" with a sentence for committing a crime.

"One who falls back into prior habits, especially criminal habits; a repeat offender.

Nothing to do with being sentenced. Roll Eyes

Poor lee's crippled Conservative brain on full display.

I said you either have to be locked up, or at least brought before the 'revolving door' courts, before you can become 'recidivist'.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #187 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:49pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:18am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 1:03pm:

Gnads wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:49pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

lee wrote on Oct 26^th, 2024 at 1:49pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1728677423/170#170 date=1729814039]Recidivism itself is caused by locking people up, rather than treating or re-educating them.

Quote:

So Kids who have never been locked up can't be recidivists? Grin

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

Poor Lee - still mentally crippled ...

That's only legalese manipulation of the system.

Coming before the court time and again and being let off and no conviction recorded .... does not mean the child or youth is not a criminal recidivist.

Again, the Conservative lack of understanding of causes:

Kids don't get hauled before the courts for no reason.

The problem is egghead lawyers have no understanding of why the kids keep appearing in court (socioeconomic disadvantage, poor role models), AND how to deal with it (including retraining or re-education of kids).

Even "adult crime, adult time" Crisafulli's policy on youth crime includes retraining to give the kids a chance (as he said in his victory speech last night).

Brilliant deduction Watson .... durrrrh. Roll Eyes

Thanks.

Quote:

Retraining ey?

That was the word Crisafulli used, to pacify the howls from the left; even he knows locking kids up won't fix the underlying causes of crime.

Quote:

And that's not been tried before? No boot camps?
No taking troubled youth out bush?

Not on the community-wide scale needed; you have to eradicate socio-economic disadvantage.

Quote:

You need to take a look at a 2015 documentary called - Back Track Boys.

It's about a program that run in Armidale NSW for wayward boys who have been in trouble with the law ... both white and Aboriginal....

each boy is given a dog to train to do obstacle course and high wall jumps/climbs and they go around region country competing and demonstrating.

Quite a few boys look to be turning themselves around then go falling back into trouble and back to jail.

Like I said, the communty must eradicate socio economic disadvantage, as well as retraining young offenders (Crisafulli's concession).

Quote:

As has been said to you countless times all these softly softly programs have been going on for decades..... and there's still no great level of success.

They know right from wrong but continue to take the wrong path.

The "softly softly" programs ignore(d) the uderlying socio economic disadvantage - which is why they failed.

The problem is Conservatives don't do macro economics fit for our times.

Quote:

You are still just alll waffle, waffle, waffle.

Achieving above-poverty participation in the economy for all, in lieu of poverty-level welfare for some, isn't waffle.

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lee

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #188 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:51pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:26pm:

I said you either have to be locked up, or at least brought before the 'revolving door' courts, before you can become 'recidivist'.

And you were wrong. You merely have to be a repeat offender, whether charged or not Roll Eyes

So a repeat offender doesn't know they are wrong? They don't hear or see news or gossip? Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #189 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:00pm

lee wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:12pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:17am:

Funny how quickly the notion of innocent until proven guilty evaporates when skin colour changes.

Funny how a crime isn't a crime until someone is convicted. Roll Eyes

Already explained: egg-head lawyers who have no idea of how to fix the socio-economic disadvantage which they are confronted with in court every day, simply release the young offenders.

The public is getting sick of it, and Labor was turfed out of office in Queensland, on the "adult crime , adult time" LNP slogan.

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lee

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #190 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:00pm:

Already explained: egg-head lawyers who have no idea of how to fix the socio-economic disadvantage which they are confronted with in court every day, simply release the young offenders.

But until they are charged with repeat criminal offences they have not acted criminally? Grin

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Dnarever

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #191 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:07pm

Gnads wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:21am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 7:17am:

lee wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 2:13pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 27^th, 2024 at 12:42pm:

Correct: you can't be locked up if you have never committed a crime, hence you can't be a 'recidivist' (and be locked up twice ...)

You confuse "committing a crime" with a sentence for committing a crime.

"One who falls back into prior habits, especially criminal habits; a repeat offender.

Nothing to do with being sentenced. Roll Eyes

Funny how quickly the notion of innocent until proven guilty evaporates when skin colour changes.

That's just Horse shyte.

What colour horse ?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #192 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:07pm

lee wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:51pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 1:26pm:

I said you either have to be locked up, or at least brought before the 'revolving door' courts, before you can become 'recidivist'.

And you were wrong. You merely have to be a repeat offender, whether charged or not Roll Eyes

Er....poor lee: being brought before 'revolving-door courts' IS merely "being a repeat offender, whether charged or not".

Quote:

So a repeat offender doesn't know they are wrong? They don't hear or see news or gossip? Grin

Poor lee: a repeat offender isn't concerned about right or wrong, even if he can distinguish between the two.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84738 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility Reply #193 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:17pm If a repeat offender was concerned about right and wrong he wouldn't be a repeat offender, would he? Jesus, man...
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lee

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Re: Lowering the age of crim responsibility
Reply #194 - Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:07pm:

Er....poor lee: being brought before 'revolving-door courts' IS merely "being a repeat offender, whether charged or not".

So having not been charged, how can he be brought before the "revolving-door courts". Shocked

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 28^th, 2024 at 2:07pm:

Poor lee: a repeat offender isn't concerned about right or wrong, even if he can distinguish between the two.

So he knows they are wrong but does it anyway. The very definition of a repeat offender. Grin

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