thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 12:37pm:


Which paper describes that? And accurately measures it? Remember there are a lot of undersea volcanoes.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 12:37pm:



You are setting a very low bar.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 12:37pm:


Oh dear PM2.5 rears its ugly head again. It has never been measured in the corpses to find whether it is true. An epidemiological study, as done by the EPA, but curiously never released, is not proof of anything. Remember smoking, many more time PM2.5 in one breath than in the atmosphere. You are just an anti-science troll. NO engineering, NO Technological skills, NO  Science skills, NO economic skills. You just read something and if it accords with your beliefs, it must be true.

lee wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 12:30pm:
 

The point is wealthy countries are more able to mobilize the resources required to transition the green economy.

And China, faced with a more urgent air pollution problem (being the world's factory) has been forced to invest in renewables to reduce air-pollution from burning coal, and is now a leader in EVs, PVs and wind turbines.  And hence, coincidentally reducing CO2 emissions at a faster rate than other countries. 

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Of course; and China is already seriously investing;

(google)

China invested $890 billion in clean energy in 2023, which was a 40% increase from the previous year:

but it does take time to build the infrastructure.

As for the globe; required total investment will exceed $100 trillion to reach zero emissions; the Global South will require assitance , with transfer of know-how and resource-development capacity from developed countries .  (Contrary to popular belief, money - which is created out of thin air - isn't the problem, resource mobilization is; see the latest MMT thread).   

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The World Bank SHOULD be funding the required global resources transfer and mobilization, but they are liars intent on deceiving us all into thinking individuals have to suffer higher taxes to pay for the transition.   (The "opportunity costs" mainstream economists rave about confuse money "costs" with (choices of)resource mobilization "costs".

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Because mainstream economists are liars (see above); "economists" want economy-wrecking carbon taxes which will pauperize low-income consumers.

But if AGW-CO2 is real, and in any case the projected massive future increases in energy needs will force nations to deal with  fossil-caused, injurious to health, air pollution (smog etc), then the transition from fossils must be made - without pauperizing low income consumers.   

Indeed it's cheaper (ie, simpler)  to keep burning coal than to transition; and the fossil companies love their massive profits, so they resist the transition. But it's not an option. 

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Interestingly, China - the world's factory - will WANT to continue with its decarbonization efforts, to ensure nice clear days in all its cities.  And once building the green infrastrucure is complete, the "fuel" (sun and wind) is free.... 

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Examined above, and your errors exposed.

I accep.....oh, never mind

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


And yet that has not been proven to work anywhere. China is building more coal plant than all other countries COMBINED.

"In China, 47.4GW of coal power capacity came online in 2023, GEM says."

https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-responsible-for-95-of-new-coal-power-construct...

"Solar leads as China adds 210GW of new renewable capacity so far in 2024"

https://reneweconomy.com.au/solar-leads-as-china-adds-210gw-of-new-renewable-cap...

Now 210GW is nameplate capacity. So that needs to be reduced by at least 70%. 47.4GW reliable and 63GW unreliable.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:

and only got 63 GW for it.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


REad the BRICS statement. They are going to rely on fossil fuels.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


ah yes, it is only money no drama.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


And yet there is NO requirement shown for carbon taxes, AT ALL.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


China already has the low emission coal plants.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


That's not the media says. They are all about how much "cheaper" it is. Until such time as they have to go begging for the fossil fuel power. That's part of the reason it costs more. They have to run the generators, have the associated costs, but the renewables get first dibs. Do you really think that the fossil fuel plants should run at a loss until called upon?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


Why? it is not a fully Capitalist System, the workers have NO say.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


So replacement of solar panel and wind turbines are NOT a part of infrastructure?

Yes I know machinery needsd maintenace, as do solar panels. It is cheaper to upograde the machinery than replace all those solar panels and wind turbines. And then there are the material used in both, that are postulated by many to fall short of even initial requirements, let alone replacement.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


You have only grabbed headlines again. NO thought into any realities, Believing the marketing hype.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 1:34pm:


Never mind petal. One day you may actually come to understand. i

As the obstetrician said to the placenta during development - stick to the issue....

So - which of these criminal child recalcitrants headed for the revolving door cause climate change? 

Clearly, give their utter recalcitrance and that of their 'elders' and 'parents' - the only solution at the end of the day is a Two State Solution... this undeclared brush war by the Aborigines against Wharte culture and benefits must cease somehow - and not via surrender by the majority to threats and terrorism..... it all started with Rudd licking their nuts ... I TOLD YOU SO then - that it would not be the end but only the beginning of The Strife.

Let some sense and fairness into the discussion ..... or it WILL boil over.  We've already seen the beginning of the rise of extreme groups to oppose this takeover, this coup....... as I predicted... what we are seeing here today is extremes of both 'left' and 'right' .... and all around us is chaos and madness... this war will never end........... not while you feed its hungry maw....

lee wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 3:21pm:


Transitioning to net zero is certainly "dramatic", but there is in fact NO drama with the money - which is created out of thin air.   Do try to keep up.

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if AGW-CO2 is a hoax....

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yet they still have a persistent air pollution problem caused by burnng coal, which is rapidly being reduced with the world's fastest adoption  of renewables. 

Meanwhile, poor India.....oh dear. 


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The media accept the need for the transition, and are saying NEW renewables are cheaper than NEW coal plants required to replace old plants.

But in fact the monetary costs of transition are huge, whichever technology is adopted.

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They should be progressively closed down according to government planning (see the next comment), not the 'invisible hand 'market,  ensuring that  renewables and storage are rolled out ASAP.

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Dummy, workers want clean air too; and indeed the government has the final say in China.

Funny: government planning/intervention  might prove necessary to save the planet....

"Markets are good servants, but bad masters, and a worse religion".  Amory Lovins.

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dummy: cost of replacement of energy producers every 3 decades - PVs etc, powered by free 'fuel', is small compared with the cost of expensive fossil fuel 24/7,  and its maintenance costs. 

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Examined and exposed above. The headlines are sometimes correct , sometimes not.

And as for your beliefs.....forget it.   i

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


Exactly. It is free money. No need for repayments... EVER.

Wasn't it Keen who said as long as you have the resources? The Green agenda is to shutdown mining. What does that do for resources?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


You keep saying that but coyly don't want to expose your beliefs and the science backing them up.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


You don't think it because the new coal plants are not IN the cities?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


The media is full of left winger types who defer to th left wing academia. You still haven't explained why if renewables are "cheaper" they continue to build coal plants. It is supposed to be faster for renewables as well.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


Oh now storage enters the equation. Why is storage a separate issue? It is a MAJOR part of the push to renewables.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


And the Government in China has NO responsibilities to the serfs.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


And yet you have shown NO inkling of this happening in China. Merely some vague HOPE.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


Not when renewables need replacement well within that 25 year lifespan. So how well is PV recycling going? Turbine blades?

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


You haven;'t expose anything of substance. Merely youur vague hopes.

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 22^nd, 2024 at 11:47am:


My beliefs rely on scinece yours do not. But I can see why you don't want to debate beliefs.

Lowering the age of criminal responsibility - not lowering the height of glacier melt ... cool though that may be...

What about them poor little kids sent up the highway?  What could a ten year old do that warranted such measures... I ask you?   

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Nov 21^st, 2024 at 11:24am:


It is racist to assume that indigenous Australians are not knowledgeable enough to know that sugar and high carbs are bad for their health. They know. They just don't care. The indigenous people in remote communities are such people that they have little to do other than to drink sugary drinks -- sometimes they sneak in alcohol -- and eat rubbish food.

They have few jobs. They have little to do other than to play football or learn how to fix cars. The women learn how to look after each others' children. And they learn how to deal with medical emergencies -- of which is often in some communities.

I could imagine the idea of "educating people on how to eat healthy" is just something that indigenous Australians learn when they tell the difference between KFC and fruit and vegetables. KFC is a treat to them. Fruit and vegetables are a fact of life.