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Should King Charles say, "Sorry"? (Read 2034 times)
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #45 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:32pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:22pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:03pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:30am:
What is YOUR definition of 'reconcilation'?

Isn't it for the aggrieved to determine the definition of, and what constitutes reconciliation?


No.

If you believe I have committed a wrong against you, are you saying it is for me to determine (a) that I have done so and (b) the terms of reconciliation?


Wrong if YOU believe I have committed a wrong against you - do you not have to prove that wrong first?

In the case of Abororigines (Stammer tribe) how is any wrong proven, and how is it in any way applicable to the person alive today who had nothing to do with it? 

Was the Appin Massacre - a prime example I used and use since I took the unheard-of liberty of not accepting it at face value but actually looking into it - an example of a 'wrong'?  Please - go ahead.... walk right in .....

What are you?  Some kind of desert Bedouin capable of sustaining the rage for thousands of years over Ach-med the Imperial Jewel Supplier taking some dates off your tree?


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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #46 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:43pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:25pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 1:47pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 1:34pm:
Now do yourself a favour - post your concepts one at a time - once the page runs out I just stop bothering responding to your endless monologue.

You are fundamentally wrong about all of the things you've mentioned, in many, many ways.

In short - again - Aborigine - Heal Thyself!  Get out of the past, stop clinging to a lost delusion of an idyll in the warm sun, and get on with life.



Instead of piling on more demands, if you think I’m wrong, have the courage to articulate why, and let’s debate like adults.

If you’ve got better alternatives, don’t just hint at them, lay them out.



I’m actually interested in your insights on the issue.


.. except you never even respond to a single one of those.....


I did, multiple times, even on this very page.  Why are you so scared of reality?

Edit: ok, well we're on the next page now, but on the previous page.

Quote:
Now then - how's your homework going?  You know - don't crowd your page with too many issues to answer at one time and then whine that others won't respond to you.

Start again - which one of your copy and pastes do you wish to be responded to first?  One at a time..

Footnote - in the Indian heron user's community - they call it poppy and caste...



I’ve answered your questions repeatedly, directly and without any of the deflections you seem so fond of. Meanwhile, you’ve consistently sidestepped and distracted, playing games instead of engaging in a real debate.

In the course of this, I asked some questions of my own, as any reasonable discussion demands. But predictably, you ignored them.

From the very start, I proposed setting some basic ground rules, but you outright refused, insisting I answer your questions while offering nothing in return. And like a fool, I went along, hoping against hope that you’d rise to the challenge and prove your whining about "abusive" accusations of bad faith wrong.

But, of course, you didn’t. You can’t. And you won’t. Because in truth, you are incapable of engaging in good faith at all.

You couldn't manage it even once, could you? It's become abundantly clear that engaging in any semblance of a good-faith discussion with you is utterly futile.

I've wasted far too much time maintaining a respectful tone, hoping, against all odds, that you'd rise to the occasion. But no, predictably, you cling to your one-sided demands, never once offering the reciprocity that is the bare minimum expectation in any civilised exchange.

Frankly, I don't know why I ever thought you were capable of more. You're nothing but a perpetually aggrieved, fragile excuse for a human, cowering from realities you lack the spine to confront.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #47 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 4:11pm
 
What part of 'one issue at a time' is so hard to follow?

I responded as far as Page's End - then stopped.. pointed out to you the fallacy of trying to impose too much in one package - and you failed to respond other than by blank refusal to co-operate.

Now 'reconciliation' - has been shot to pieces as you choose to see it... you still haven't defined it for us... or defined what you see as being it, anyway.

Once we have a firm definition, we can move on to specific Aboriginal Complaints (Endless Mk VII) ....

I think we can bypass 'massacres' .... they've been done to death..... and mostly are not as they superficially appear other than in the (mis)use of words..... just keep repeating after me .... Appin .... Appin .... Appin ....

Driven off the land - you'll have to do a survey of existing Aborigines and which group they come from - for example to ascertain how the entire Sydney Basin is denuded of them down to around (gasps) ONLY 90,000 or so... not counting those with seriously generations-old mixed blood of some kind or degree ... but hey - let's not forget that desert Bedouin and the ancient feuds..... me dates.... me dates ......
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #48 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 4:49pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:32pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:22pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:03pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:30am:
What is YOUR definition of 'reconcilation'?

Isn't it for the aggrieved to determine the definition of, and what constitutes reconciliation?


No.

If you believe I have committed a wrong against you, are you saying it is for me to determine (a) that I have done so and (b) the terms of reconciliation?


Wrong if YOU believe I have committed a wrong against you - do you not have to prove that wrong first?


Of course.

And it would also be for the aggrieved to determine the definition of, and what constitutes reconciliation.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #49 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 5:16pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 4:49pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:32pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:22pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 3:03pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:30am:
What is YOUR definition of 'reconcilation'?

Isn't it for the aggrieved to determine the definition of, and what constitutes reconciliation?


No.

If you believe I have committed a wrong against you, are you saying it is for me to determine (a) that I have done so and (b) the terms of reconciliation?


Wrong if YOU believe I have committed a wrong against you - do you not have to prove that wrong first?


Of course.

And it would also be for the aggrieved to determine the definition of, and what constitutes reconciliation.



No - under our system we have adjudicatores  who do that for us..... paternalistic, innit?  We prefer lynching....

...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Frank
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #50 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 6:14pm
 
Independent Senator Lidia Thorpe intended to hand King Charles “a notice of complicity in the Genocide of the First Peoples of this country”, using her first public statement since her interjection in the King’s speech to brand the Commonwealth a “colonial government”.

Senator Thorpe alleges her letter matched the document submitted by Indigenous activist Uncle Robbie Thorpe to the International Criminal Court which called for King Charles to “be charged and prosecuted for genocide”.

“The visit by the so-called King should be an occasion of truth-telling about the true history of this country,” the statement reads. “The colonial state has been built on the continuing genocide on First Peoples.”

“Today I was silenced and removed from the parliamentary reception when pointing out that the Crown stole from First Peoples.

“The truth is, this colony is built on stolen land, stolen wealth and stolen lives.

“The British Crown committed heinous crimes against the First Peoples of this country. These crimes include war crimes, crimes against humanity and failure to prevent genocide. There has been no justice for these crimes. The Crown must be held accountable.

“Today, the AFP threatened to arrest me for wearing a t-shirt that said ‘Stolen Land, Stolen Lives, Stolen Wealth’. I was at a rally to call out the crimes committed by the Crown. This is a clear attack on free speech and expression, at the war memorial of all places.

“Sovereign Elder Uncle Coco was arrested by AFP today for peacefully standing up against the Genocide on his people and all First Peoples of this continent.

“This colonial government will punish our Elders for protesting against a Genocide but refuse to hold the perpetrators to account.

“Today we call for justice, an end to this ongoing genocide, for Treaty and a republic. We want to be able to live in peace and finally come together as a nation.”



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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #51 - Oct 21st, 2024 at 11:42pm
 
"The truth is, this colony is built on stolen land, stolen wealth and stolen lives."

And mightily have they all prospered from it.... they apparently didn't own land just wandered over it and fought over bits of it for temporary foraging grounds - they had no concept of wealth and no idea of any value of resources and farming etc - and when they stole settler lives they copped retaliation....  simple really.

I'm still laughing at the carefully tailored possum cape..... she's never worn such a thing in her life.... she's a fraud through and through and is just playing to the lowest common denominators and the fringe dwellers - doing a Hitler and making 'looka me' gestures to con people into believing she holds the answers when all she is doing is deepening divisions.

A natural born con person - she carries on like a raving lunatic for the fringe dwellers, then when she's interviewed she plays all calm and collected and reasonable.

You cannot be serious... I see right through her.

At the very least that shows an instability that warrants her removal from office - at its worst she is a cunning sociopath, who, like Kamala over there - shifts characters and voices to suit the audience.

Drain The Billabongs!


Footnote:-  Tamworth Council this time is all men - you oughta see the comments.    Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin  Grin
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Valkie
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #52 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 3:28pm
 
For what
Bringing education to them.
For bringing medical to them
For giving them housing, food, clothing For nothing.
For offering many things that they are too lazy to utilise.

Nope, nothing to say sorry for.
But lots to be thanked for.
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I HAVE A DREAM
A WONDERFUL, PEACEFUL, BEAUTIFUL DREAM.
A DREAM OF A WORLD THAT HAS NEVER KNOWN ISLAM
A DREAM OF A WORLD FREE FROM THE HORRORS OF ISLAM.

SUCH A WONDERFUL DREAM
O HOW I WISH IT WERE TRU
 
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #53 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 4:31pm
 
Quote:
Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?


Yes if he steps on someone's foot, it would be bad form not to.
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Gnads
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #54 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 5:27pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 19th, 2024 at 11:31am:
No.

The apology has already been made, we should be working away from that towards truth telling and reconciliation.



It's actually scheduled as our "Truth telling and reparations".

Reconciliation has long taken a back seat.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #55 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 5:34pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Oct 20th, 2024 at 10:30am:
The OP's question has an obvious answer.

Charles Mountbatten-Windsor cannot apologise personally as he did not commit the crimes and wrongs.

Charles III must not apologise unilaterally, as he can only act, as head of state, on the advice of the PM via the G-G.

The question is:

Should the Australian people apologise for past wrongdoing via our representatives in Parliament and expressed by our head of state - be that Charles III or his representative the Governor-General, alongside or not our Prime Minister?



Already done via Kevin Rudd as PM.

As a consequence the cheque book balance took a tumble as the reparations began and headed to $36 billion per year. 

With negligible improvement in DV, child sexual abuse, anti social behaviours and criminal activity.
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Gnads
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #56 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 5:38pm
 
tallowood wrote on Oct 20th, 2024 at 5:18pm:


Yeah nah ... but I do love the Pythons.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #57 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 5:41pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 1:41pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 1:34pm:
Now do yourself a favour - post your concepts one at a time - once the page runs out I just stop bothering responding to your endless monologue.

You are fundamentally wrong about all of the things you've mentioned, in many, many ways.

In short - again - Aborigine - Heal Thyself!  Get out of the past, stop clinging to a lost delusion of an idyll in the warm sun, and get on with life.



Now now, I answered your question, please answer mine,

SadKangaroo wrote on Oct 20th, 2024 at 7:51am:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Oct 19th, 2024 at 4:42pm:
Now then - how do YOU propose we all go about 'reconcilation'?  Start by giving us your **chuckles** 'definition' of 'reconciliation'.


Alright, I’ll give you one last chance at a genuine discussion, but let’s set some ground rules first.

Do you actually want the real answer, the well-considered, informed one that might take a bit longer to unpack? Or are you just fishing for a quick one-liner you can conveniently ignore or twist, like you've been doing lately?

And since this is meant to be a discussion, what are you bringing to the table? Will you finally explain why you’re so against moving forward on reconciliation? Or why you seem hell-bent on opposing every single policy or announcement that could benefit Indigenous people?

Is that too much to ask for in return?


Thanks.



You answered nothing ... just waffled superfluous leftoid guilt as if it is applicable in any way.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Gnads
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #58 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 5:46pm
 
Frank wrote on Oct 21st, 2024 at 6:14pm:
Independent Senator Lidia Thorpe intended to hand King Charles “a notice of complicity in the Genocide of the First Peoples of this country”, using her first public statement since her interjection in the King’s speech to brand the Commonwealth a “colonial government”.

Senator Thorpe alleges her letter matched the document submitted by Indigenous activist Uncle Robbie Thorpe to the International Criminal Court which called for King Charles to “be charged and prosecuted for genocide”.

“The visit by the so-called King should be an occasion of truth-telling about the true history of this country,” the statement reads. “The colonial state has been built on the continuing genocide on First Peoples.”

“Today I was silenced and removed from the parliamentary reception when pointing out that the Crown stole from First Peoples.

“The truth is, this colony is built on stolen land, stolen wealth and stolen lives.

“The British Crown committed heinous crimes against the First Peoples of this country. These crimes include war crimes, crimes against humanity and failure to prevent genocide. There has been no justice for these crimes. The Crown must be held accountable.

“Today, the AFP threatened to arrest me for wearing a t-shirt that said ‘Stolen Land, Stolen Lives, Stolen Wealth’. I was at a rally to call out the crimes committed by the Crown. This is a clear attack on free speech and expression, at the war memorial of all places.

“Sovereign Elder Uncle Coco was arrested by AFP today for peacefully standing up against the Genocide on his people and all First Peoples of this continent.

“This colonial government will punish our Elders for protesting against a Genocide but refuse to hold the perpetrators to account.

“Today we call for justice, an end to this ongoing genocide, for Treaty and a republic. We want to be able to live in peace and finally come together as a nation.”





There was no stolen land as their culture had no concept of ownership.

There was definitely no stolen wealth because aside from ochre Aboriginals had no idea about mining natural resources.

The bastards couldn't lie straight in bed.

And Lydia Thorpe is the biggest of liars.
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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Should King Charles say, "Sorry"?
Reply #59 - Oct 24th, 2024 at 5:48pm
 
...
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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