Australian Politics Forum - Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.

Karnal

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #45 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:50am

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 7:15am:

totally agree mesiter

for europe and for chyyyyna, trumps presidency is NOT good for them

listen to what the man says

"make america great again"

other countries can man up and stop being punk ass bitches suckling on the american miracle

one point

americas dominance by big food and big pharma needs to end

its why i criticise trump for being fat and serving maccas

the 4 key indicators of good metablic health are blood pressure, blood sugar, triglycerides, waist circumference .

on thise 4 indicators a whopping 95 % of americans are not in good health

a 5 trillion dollar food industry (the swamp) feeding a 5 trillion dollar big pharma industry (the swamp) with the mainstream media and washington and the agencies (the FDA etc) totally dependant on cash from big food and pharma

america spending TWICE any other industrialised nation on health and having the WORST outcomes in nearly every metric

this needs to change or the country is stuffed

if trump can kick out the grifters

get an RFK type chap (maybe without the conspiracy theories) to implement grass roots health programs and stifle the toxic system they currently have, they could do so much better .

kick out the military grifters
kick out the food grifters
kick out the pharma grifters
kick out the university grifters
kick out the education grifters

get americans doing what they do best

taking risks , building businesses, taking on challenges, being awesome
sideline government and red tape

he is setting the right mood

people like musk get it

thats why they are so threatening to the embedded rusted on swamp dwellers

You miss the point entirely. The Trump brand is all about grifting. The purpose of his administration is to bring the grifters into the tent. The biggest?

Elon, the richest guy in the world. They plan to outsource the depts of agriculture, energy, health and catering to big ag, big oil, big pharma and fast food. He's promised to do all this, you silly old thing.

What do you think Project 2025's about?

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12670 Gender:	Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis. Reply #46 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:51am Thank god Hitler was a sh!t soldier and prevented the German army from finishing off the British at Dunkirk.
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aquascoot

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #47 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:53am

Carl D wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

Frank wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:29am:

How did Britain resist Germany?

National spirit counts for a lot.

That was 80 years ago.

When "national spirit" did count for a lot.

When the population and government worked together and willingly made sacrifices for the common good.

Not anymore. Today it's all about "me, me, me and stuff everyone else".

thats YOUR behaviour
thats "personal seflishness, safetyism and comfort"

we are talking about "personal responsibility"
an adult term
like the men who went and fought at kokoda

not those who celebrated "taking' from centrelink as the highest of moral virtues

try to keep up

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aquascoot

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #48 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:01am

Karnal wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 7:15am:

totally agree mesiter

for europe and for chyyyyna, trumps presidency is NOT good for them

listen to what the man says

"make america great again"

other countries can man up and stop being punk ass bitches suckling on the american miracle

one point

americas dominance by big food and big pharma needs to end

its why i criticise trump for being fat and serving maccas

the 4 key indicators of good metablic health are blood pressure, blood sugar, triglycerides, waist circumference .

on thise 4 indicators a whopping 95 % of americans are not in good health

a 5 trillion dollar food industry (the swamp) feeding a 5 trillion dollar big pharma industry (the swamp) with the mainstream media and washington and the agencies (the FDA etc) totally dependant on cash from big food and pharma

america spending TWICE any other industrialised nation on health and having the WORST outcomes in nearly every metric

this needs to change or the country is stuffed

if trump can kick out the grifters

get an RFK type chap (maybe without the conspiracy theories) to implement grass roots health programs and stifle the toxic system they currently have, they could do so much better .

kick out the military grifters
kick out the food grifters
kick out the pharma grifters
kick out the university grifters
kick out the education grifters

get americans doing what they do best

taking risks , building businesses, taking on challenges, being awesome
sideline government and red tape

he is setting the right mood

people like musk get it

thats why they are so threatening to the embedded rusted on swamp dwellers

You miss the point entirely. The Trump brand is all about grifting. The purpose of his administration is to bring the grifters into the tent. The biggest?

Elon, the richest guy in the world. They plan to outsource the depts of agriculture, energy, health and catering to big ag, big oil, big pharma and fast food. He's promised to do all this, you silly old thing.

What do you think Project 2025's about?

incorrect

the generals like mcrystal who betray their mission and take a million dollar salary are the grifters
the doctors who take cash from pharma and big food to promote the american diet where coco pops are promoted and eggs and red meat are not are the grifters
the green grifters like newsome who take cash from european wind turbine manufacturers are the real grifters

musk doesnt even own a house, he spends all his time working on real solutions
he would make a passionate head of energy
RFK is a fit looking healthy bloke who distrusts big pharma
he would make an excellent head of the FDA
trump is going to pull out of foreign wars
he makes an excellent commander in chief
he is going to finish the wall
this is fantastic news for black and latino men on minimum wage
who wont have to compete with illegals working for cash

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Carl D

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #49 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:02am

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:53am:

thats YOUR behaviour
thats "personal seflishness, safetyism and comfort"

we are talking about "personal responsibility"
an adult term
like the men who went and fought at kokoda

not those who celebrated "taking' from centrelink as the highest of moral virtues

try to keep up

If you took some time to check the real world outside of that little farm in Nowheresville, Outback Queensland (population: 10) you may actually notice that "personal seflishness, safetyism and comfort" is all the majority of the population care about these days.

As for "personal responsibility", my elderly aunt had another fall on Friday evening and I stayed with her at Sir Charles Gairdner Hospital until after midnight then went back to visit her yesterday afternoon and I will (hopefully) be bringing her home later today.

No "Netfix", "what's for dinner" or "when is my next Bali holiday" on my mind at the moment.

How's that for some "personal responsibility"?

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 34846 Gender:	Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis. Reply #50 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:05am maybe less time virtue signalling on the internet, reading dr bergers rediculous posts and more time supervising the aunt so she doesnt fall. hows that for personal responsibility
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Carl D

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #51 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:15am

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:05am:

maybe less time virtue signalling on the internet, reading dr bergers rediculous posts and more time supervising the aunt so she doesnt fall.

hows that for personal responsibility

Well, when I eventually get the care package from My Aged Care that I've been waiting 7 months for then I can get some help looking after her.

Until then, everything is on ME. As it has been for over 5 years now.

After her latest fall and after talking to several people yesterday I believe the wheels are finally going to be set in motion to get me some help.

But thank you for your concern.

Oh, and you can stick your "personal responsibility" where the sun don't shine. And I say that in the nicest way I'm capable of doing at the moment.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #52 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:24am

goosecat wrote on Nov 9^th, 2024 at 6:06pm:

This was PM'd to me on another site. Not saying I agree or disagree but it has value IMHO.

Certainly does: Trump's policies will affect the global economy.

Quote:

"Higher energy production = lower energy prices = lower production costs = new production incentives = more manufacturing = more jobs

Yes. At this stage, fossil fuels are the cheapest form of energy, given the current energy infrastructure. And fracking technology has enabled the US to become the world's biggest producer of fossil fuels, and hence rebuild more competitve industries in the rust belt and other industries - aka 'MAGA' (since the US, unlike China, no longer needs Arabian oil).

Indeed, if CO2 emissions weren't a problem, no-one** would be bothering to transition to the vast expensive new renewable infrastructure required.

**except China - "the world's factory" - which has a pollution problem with burning fossil fuels.

Quote:

Reduced regulation allows US manufacturing to compete with China which has zero regulation.

See above: in fact, China is committed to reducing reliance on coal; hence regulation of the coal industry; China is now the world's largest producer of renewable energy and increasing fast, and though it is still the largest CO2 emitter, fossil pollution is decreasing fast.

Quote:

The one thing people keep missing about his tariff plan is the plan to give a 6% corporate tax cut to those who manufacture in the United States. His plan is literally the same as a Border Adjustment Tax, but unlike a BAT, it also rewards companies that service the domestic economy exclusively.

Yes, in the absence of global cooperation re trade, ie, fair trade rather than free trade, Trump's policies may help to repair the US rust belt.

Quote:

The reason why China dominates world wide manufacturing is because after 1970, the value of the RMB went from 1.2 RMB to the USD to around 8 RMB in the 1990s and was pegged to the USD in 1997 before being released to a range of 6-7 RMB to USD. It should be valued at around half that, which is why Trump wants to introduce a tariff.

Globalization - with global companies seeking the lowest cost labour, is why China became the world's factory.
And the CCP's subsidization of strategic industry.

Quote:

This is why the Steel Belt became the Rust Belt, and why Trump is now President. That's what 'Make America Great Again' means to voters in those swing states. In the 1960s, the United States was responsible for 50% of the world's entire manufacturing output. From 1970 to 2024, it's declined to 18% as China has risen.

Yes.

https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/china-worlds-sole-manufacturing-superpower-line-s
ketch-rise

China is the world’s sole manufacturing superpower: A line sketch of the rise

The US is the world’s sole military superpower. It spends more on its military than the ten next highest spending countries combined. China is now the world’s sole manufacturing superpower. Its production exceeds that of the nine next largest manufacturers combined. This column uses the recently released 2023 update of the OECD TiVA database to paint an eight-chart portrait of [u]China’s journey to superpower status and the asymmetric impact that its dominance has had on global supply chains.

Quote:

But this isn't Thucydides' Trap - this was a willful destruction of the United States by globalists who hated the prospect of a nation that powerful not being beholden to financial debt. 1971 was the first year that the US had posted a trade deficit in the 20th century, and other than 1973 and 1975, it hasn't posted a surplus since."

Who are these "globalists", other than free-trade "comparative advantage" ideologues (including in the IMF and WTO), managing companies including in the US itself who sought to benefit from cheap 3rd world labour? China can't be blamed for successfully competing against high cost Western producers.

Quote:

Also, about selectively applying tariffs - Australia was the only country that didn't have a tariff put on its steel exports to the United States under the last Trump term. Why? Because we are one of the few countries that had a trade deficit with them.

Plus the LNP government begged Trump to exempt Oz steel - we are special "friends", you know... f**k the rest of the world.

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:54am by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #53 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:49am

Poor aquascoot has no understanding of macroeconomics and the forces of globalization, and hence reduces everything to 'personal responsibility'.

In 1960, Detroit - the 'motor capital of the world' - was a prosperous manufacturing centre with a population of 1.8 million people.

By 1990 its population had declined to 700,000, living in a vast urban slum with vacant, unsaleable ransacked houses; those who were able to leave to find jobs elsewhere escaped, but the remainder descended into the worst crime and poverty rates of any city in the US.

Beaten by smarter, more competitve Japanese motor manufacturing; Toyota Corollas now ruled the world.

"personal responsibility"?

Trump is trying to fix the rust belt and MAGA, regardless of 'personal responsibility'.

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:59am by thegreatdivide »

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aquascoot

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #54 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 12:25pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:49am:

Poor aquascoot has no understanding of macroeconomics and the forces of globalization, and hence reduces everything to 'personal responsibility'.

In 1960, Detroit - the 'motor capital of the world' - was a prosperous manufacturing centre with a population of 1.8 million people.

By 1990 its population had declined to 700,000, living in a vast urban slum with vacant, unsaleable ransacked houses; those who were able to leave to find jobs elsewhere escaped, but the remainder descended into the worst crime and poverty rates of any city in the US.

Beaten by smarter, more competitve Japanese motor manufacturing; Toyota Corollas now ruled the world.

"personal responsibility"?

Trump is trying to fix the rust belt and MAGA, regardless of 'personal responsibility'.

having you disagree with my perspective is a leading indicator that i am probably correct

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Carl D

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #55 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 12:29pm

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 12:25pm:

having you disagree with my perspective is a leading indicator that i am probably correct

Really?

From my perspective it's a leading indicator that you're probably wrong. As usual.

Oh, and before you comment, just remember:

"Denial is not a river in Egypt"

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SadKangaroo

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #56 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 1:19pm

Frank wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:27am:

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 9:36am:

goosecat wrote on Nov 9^th, 2024 at 6:06pm:

Trumps Summarised USA Economic Policy Foundational Basis[/size]

"Higher energy production = lower energy prices = lower production costs = new production incentives = more manufacturing = more jobs

You'd think then he'd understand that,

Adding tariffs when there is no local option, forcing US consumers to pay 20-60% more for those goods = rising inflation = rising interest rates = lower income and working families paying more for necessities = a Trump recession

Lemme stop you right there.

What are the things in the US for which there is no US-owned or US-produced alternative?

I can't believe you need this explaining to, again...

If Trump were to implement tariffs on all imports, it would increase the cost of imported goods, which could encourage people to buy domestically produced alternatives. However, whether there are viable local alternatives depends on the product and industry.

For some goods, especially agricultural products and basic manufactured items, local alternatives might be available or could be ramped up relatively quickly.

However, for more complex items like electronics, machinery, or specialized components, it would be challenging to find or establish equivalent local production in the short term. The U.S. has a significant manufacturing base, but certain industries rely heavily on global supply chains due to cost efficiencies, technological expertise, or raw material availability.

In the short to medium term, widespread tariffs will lead to higher prices and limited availability for certain products, as local producers would need time and investment to scale up or shift production.

The effectiveness of domestic substitutes would also depend on the ability of local industries to meet demand at a competitive quality and price.

Hence, if Trump doesn't FIRST fix the local manufacturing base, something that is deeply ideologically opposed by the Republican Party, champions of deregulation and "let the free market decide" in the short and medium term Americans will be forced to pay more for all the products they need either because all or part of them is produced overseas.

I'm sorry the reality is so triggering, but get with it dipstick.

This is what you backed and what the people chose...

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Karnal

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #57 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 1:40pm

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:01am:

Karnal wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 10:50am:

aquascoot wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 7:15am:

totally agree mesiter

for europe and for chyyyyna, trumps presidency is NOT good for them

listen to what the man says

"make america great again"

other countries can man up and stop being punk ass bitches suckling on the american miracle

one point

americas dominance by big food and big pharma needs to end

its why i criticise trump for being fat and serving maccas

the 4 key indicators of good metablic health are blood pressure, blood sugar, triglycerides, waist circumference .

on thise 4 indicators a whopping 95 % of americans are not in good health

a 5 trillion dollar food industry (the swamp) feeding a 5 trillion dollar big pharma industry (the swamp) with the mainstream media and washington and the agencies (the FDA etc) totally dependant on cash from big food and pharma

america spending TWICE any other industrialised nation on health and having the WORST outcomes in nearly every metric

this needs to change or the country is stuffed

if trump can kick out the grifters

get an RFK type chap (maybe without the conspiracy theories) to implement grass roots health programs and stifle the toxic system they currently have, they could do so much better .

kick out the military grifters
kick out the food grifters
kick out the pharma grifters
kick out the university grifters
kick out the education grifters

get americans doing what they do best

taking risks , building businesses, taking on challenges, being awesome
sideline government and red tape

he is setting the right mood

people like musk get it

thats why they are so threatening to the embedded rusted on swamp dwellers

You miss the point entirely. The Trump brand is all about grifting. The purpose of his administration is to bring the grifters into the tent. The biggest?

Elon, the richest guy in the world. They plan to outsource the depts of agriculture, energy, health and catering to big ag, big oil, big pharma and fast food. He's promised to do all this, you silly old thing.

What do you think Project 2025's about?

incorrect

the generals like mcrystal who betray their mission and take a million dollar salary are the grifters
the doctors who take cash from pharma and big food to promote the american diet where coco pops are promoted and eggs and red meat are not are the grifters
the green grifters like newsome who take cash from european wind turbine manufacturers are the real grifters

musk doesnt even own a house, he spends all his time working on real solutions
he would make a passionate head of energy
RFK is a fit looking healthy bloke who distrusts big pharma
he would make an excellent head of the FDA
trump is going to pull out of foreign wars
he makes an excellent commander in chief
he is going to finish the wall
this is fantastic news for black and latino men on minimum wage
who wont have to compete with illegals working for cash

Musk receives $13 bil in US government subsidies. He's now tasked with "trimming waste".

Go figure. By 2028, Musk will own NASA. Big oil will have the US department of Energy. Eli Lily and Johnson & Johnson will have the department of Health. And the department of Education will be cut entirely.

Where have you been for this campaign? This has all been announced.

You need to pay attention. Your DL isn't about any personal responsibility or any of that krap. He's about handing the US state over to his billionaire friends and corporate backers. How do we know?

He said.

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Karnal

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #58 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 2:28pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 11:49am:

Poor aquascoot has no understanding of macroeconomics and the forces of globalization, and hence reduces everything to 'personal responsibility'.

In 1960, Detroit - the 'motor capital of the world' - was a prosperous manufacturing centre with a population of 1.8 million people.

By 1990 its population had declined to 700,000, living in a vast urban slum with vacant, unsaleable ransacked houses; those who were able to leave to find jobs elsewhere escaped, but the remainder descended into the worst crime and poverty rates of any city in the US.

Beaten by smarter, more competitve Japanese motor manufacturing; Toyota Corollas now ruled the world.

"personal responsibility"?

Trump is trying to fix the rust belt and MAGA, regardless of 'personal responsibility'.

Just so. And now, US consumers are turning to superior Chinese-made EVs.

Detroit will never turn back into a gaz-guzzling auto manufacturer again, the market's not buying it.

Besides, all over the East and West coasts, the infrastructure's primed for EVs. The transition to electric and renewable energy has begun. There's no turning back.

All a MAGA administration can do is delay the inevitable, but that won't be a piece of cake to do. Newscum in California's planning a green bulwark against Washington, and he can do it too. For all DL's complaints against wind farms and solar plants, they're expanding. It's a free market, after all, and renewables are long-term cheap. The transition now relies on the blue states.

The biggest setback from the Trump election is the transition to renewable energy - the most important project this century. But the markets - and the states - will continue regardless, as will global warming.

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2024 at 2:33pm by Karnal »

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goosecat

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Re: Trumps Summarised USA Economic Foundational Basis.
Reply #59 - Nov 10^th, 2024 at 2:56pm

SadKangaroo wrote on Nov 10^th, 2024 at 1:19pm:

If Trump were to implement tariffs on all imports, it would increase the cost of imported goods, which could encourage people to buy domestically produced alternatives. However, whether there are viable local alternatives depends on the product and industry.

For some goods, especially agricultural products and basic manufactured items, local alternatives might be available or could be ramped up relatively quickly.

However, for more complex items like electronics, machinery, or specialized components, it would be challenging to find or establish equivalent local production in the short term. The U.S. has a significant manufacturing base, but certain industries rely heavily on global supply chains due to cost efficiencies, technological expertise, or raw material availability.

In the short to medium term, widespread tariffs will lead to higher prices and limited availability for certain products, as local producers would need time and investment to scale up or shift production.

The effectiveness of domestic substitutes would also depend on the ability of local industries to meet demand at a competitive quality and price.

Hence, if Trump doesn't FIRST fix the local manufacturing base, something that is deeply ideologically opposed by the Republican Party, champions of deregulation and "let the free market decide" in the short and medium term Americans will be forced to pay more for all the products they need either because all or part of them is produced overseas.

This is what you backed and what the people chose...

Only guessing but I suspect Trump is well aware there is going to be a gap in the timeline of increasing USA production enough to cover as many products as he would like and demand.

I suspect he hopes China will initially respond by having to lower prices into USA to cover. He is targeting them specifically more than any competitors. I suspect he hopes to achieve a 2 pronged attack on the China trade imbalance by reducing that imbalance and empowering to an extent, any China manufacturing competitors.

His idea of increasing USA manufacturing, is not in and of itself a bad idea. It requires a leader whom is prepared to enact long term supporting policies that may take more than one term to see the full desired gains in his specified area.
I doubt legacy media will even grasp that notion let alone promulgate it, but that is where the hysterical, radical, left misunderstand Trump. He genuinely thinks part of improving the USA economic position and citizen livelihood, includes broadening it's base to include more manufacturing.

I'm again guessing but I expect there will be an initial positive response to his policies from investment into the USA and already the markets seem to agree. That may be followed by a period of poorer performance as the "gap" between investment and actual production comes to the fore and China fight-back efforts have some effect. There followed by a period of better performance as some of the policies start to bare physical fruit.
I reckon Trump will accordingly see a 12 month honeymoon period, followed by a couple of tougher years, including an over-due market correction, before ending with a better performance towards the end of his term.
The legacy left wing media will focus on the tougher years of his term and Trump will focus on the "poo" in his opinion he was left by Biden/Hariss and the improving economic outlook towards the back end.
The media circus goes into the new election rhetoric media cycle and around we go.

That's my crystal ball guess. lol

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« Last Edit: Nov 10^th, 2024 at 4:40pm by goosecat »

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