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Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies' (Read 289 times)

Jasin

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Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies'
Nov 16^th, 2024 at 8:03am

I fell in love with this guy when I learned about him upon the MOANA program. A Maori orientated program that appears on the Aboriginal NITV here in Australia.
Sadly the Moana site hasn't put up the episode of a NZ Maori who has earned x2 KNIGHTHOODS and served in the Maori Battalion during WW1.
https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2024/11/07/ta-bom-gillies-last-surviving-member-of-th...
...but at the end of the program he commentated on how badly Maori are treated and were treated when they returned from the War and weren't given the recognitions 'equal' to other Battalions, etc - "IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY."

And that's where it hit me!
When he said "in our (Maori only!) own country"
he basically excluded any non-maori as having equal identity to being New Zealand 'native-born'.

So this is really the crux of all Racisms/Culturalisms here.
Maori & Aborigine shouting Equality, Treaties, etc.
...and yet refuse to recognise anyone else IN 'THEIR' OWN COUNTRY.

The day the Aborigines and Maori consider themselves as people not 'above' others, just because they were here 'first' and holding entitlement as the 'only' people of such lands.
The more this shemozzle will end.

Nothing against Bom Gillies. Love the guy and still do, despite his recent passing, as I could easily be related to him.

What are your thoughts?
Is the original racism/culturalism based on this "In our own Country" that rejects all others?

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies'
Reply #1 - Nov 16^th, 2024 at 8:28am

The issue rests on the 'Maori' concept of 'Tangata Whenua' (pronounced Fenooah), meaning 'people of the land'.

At the time of the Treaty, the local peoples distinguished each other as 'Tangata Whenua Maori' and 'Tangata Whenua Pakeha'.

These terms were originally not intended to denote the superiority of one people over the other, but to identify someone culturally.

The term 'Maori' in the language simply translates into something like 'ordinary person' as the locals had never encountered non-Polynesians. The etymology of the term 'Pakeha' is disputed, but originally meant anyone of European descent.

Currently, the distinction has descended into 'Tangata Whenua' for all Maori and 'Tangata Te Tiriti' - 'people of the treaty' for all non-Maori.

While Pakeha was originally associated with peoples of British Isles/European descent, it now technically includes Pacifika, Asian, Indian and African peoples as well - all non-Maori.

By shifting their focus to 'Tangata Te Tiriti', Maori activists are abandoning 'Pakeha' (away from its exclusive, historical European focus) and making a broader statement that if you're not of Maori descent, you can never be Tangata Whenua - people of the land.

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Jasin

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Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies'
Reply #2 - Nov 16^th, 2024 at 4:18pm

Thankfully an intelligent post.
Totally correct ME and informative.

It still shows an unwillingness to accept all the Pakeha (Kiwi) as the People of the Land too.

Sidetrack: Are the Aborigines more 'people of the land' that the 800 year old Maori claim? I know the Aborigines have pushed their claim even against Amer-indians, which really upset that North American teepee mob. Only the San could claim older rights when aiming for the overall global consciousness of that title.

Personally, especially the Maori. Aborigines should have a 'Welcome to your country too' ceremony and I think the world will be a better place.
Politics is obviously a British thing, even though France and Italy/Greece don't think so. Germany at least proved the British as so.
Should Lydia Thorpe be banished from Australian politics for not accepting the British truth of it?

I just think that what BOM Gillies said, basically discriminates all non-maori from being 'their own country too'.
It doesn't help the cause for equality and recognition in all things that makes a nation.

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies'
Reply #3 - Nov 16^th, 2024 at 8:57pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 16^th, 2024 at 4:18pm:

Thankfully an intelligent post.
Totally correct ME and informative.

It still shows an unwillingness to accept all the Pakeha (Kiwi) as the People of the Land too.

Personally, especially the Maori. Aborigines should have a 'Welcome to your country too' ceremony and I think the world will be a better place.

I just think that what BOM Gillies said, basically discriminates all non-maori from being 'their own country too'.
It doesn't help the cause for equality and recognition in all things that makes a nation.

Maori activists are suggesting that Tangata Whenua have a fuller claim to citizenship and association with the country, with Tangata Te Tiriti people subordinate to them.

They are demanding dual sovereignty - sovereign self-governance of Tangata Whenua and another for Tangata Te Tiriti.

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Jasin Moderator Online Posts: 48624 Gender:	Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies' Reply #4 - Nov 16^th, 2024 at 10:21pm Do you think the Maori are walking down the path towards where from where the Boers of South Africa have come ?
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies'
Reply #5 - Nov 17^th, 2024 at 8:25am

Jasin wrote on Nov 16^th, 2024 at 10:21pm:

Do you think the Maori are walking down the path towards where from where the Boers of South Africa have come ?

Firstly, you need to ask: who is Maori? Since the 1980s, this has shifted from ancestral genetic ethnicity to self-identification via cultural affinity.

There are no living ‘full blood’ ethnic Maoris and it is estimated that the average genetic ethnicity for individuals is 25% - i.e. one grandparent was ‘full blood’, or two were 50% etc…

Kiwis claiming Maori descent constitute about 15% to 20% of the population, however, this figure is not based on proven ethnicity, but on self-identification or cultural affinity as there is no official limit to claiming genetic ethnicity.

Having said that, to qualify for government financial assistance, an individual must present some evidence of ethnicity by ancestry and/or a connection to Maori culture.

« Last Edit: Nov 17^th, 2024 at 8:36am by MeisterEckhart »

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Jasin Moderator Online Posts: 48624 Gender:	Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies' Reply #6 - Nov 17^th, 2024 at 11:13am Yes, but regardless if you are racially connected, or culturally connected to the word Maori. Do they not discriminate against all others in New Zealand when 'the Maori' declare it as their own country, as if to say no others? Same with the Aborigines and their anti "welcome to your country too'" stance.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

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Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies'
Reply #7 - Nov 17^th, 2024 at 11:45am

Jasin wrote on Nov 17^th, 2024 at 11:13am:

Yes, but regardless if you are racially connected, or culturally connected to the word Maori. Do they not discriminate against all others in New Zealand when 'the Maori' declare it as their own country, as if to say no others?

Same with the Aborigines and their anti "welcome to your country too'" stance.

That would be the obvious message.

They appear to argue that people of the land (Tangata Whenua) have, by 'birthright', a claim to association with the country while People of the Treaty (Tangata Te Tiriti) have no particular rights or claims given the Treaty did not address settlers'/pioneers' exclusive considerations.

Of course, I'd bet not all Maori agree with this stance.

And then there's the cherry-picking of what it means to be 'Maori', like all fringe ethno-nutjobs do.

Would they surrender their individual rights to a chief including his arbitrarily ordering their death?

Would Maori women consent to complete submission to their husbands and male relatives?

Would they accept that each tribe has the right to arbitrarily wage war, murder and cannibalise other tribes?

Would they consent to one tribe's right to take slaves from another?

The stance of the Maori Party seems to be to argue for the right of 'Maoris' to profit from others while encouraging undereducation, unemployment, alcohol and drug abuse.

« Last Edit: Nov 17^th, 2024 at 11:52am by MeisterEckhart »

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Jasin Moderator Online Posts: 48624 Gender:	Re: Racism/Culturalism 'Bom Gillies' Reply #8 - Nov 17^th, 2024 at 12:24pm Very well said ME. I agree.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

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