Australian Politics Forum - 83 years ago…

MeisterEckhart

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #15 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:23am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:14am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:01am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 9:46am:

I think Roosevelt did turn a blind eye to the Japs but
many historians vigorously deny it.
I don't think we'll ever know the truth.

Still - the Japanese did attack Pearl Harbor.

Yes, we will never know.

However, Roosevelt did know that the Japanese were sabre-rattling and railing, throughout the 30s, against European colonial powers blocking their imperial expansion into Southeast Asia and the Pacific.

The world witnessed what Japan had done in Manchuria - so knew what they were capable of.

Roosevelt had also read and was deeply impressed with Churchill's 4-volume biography of John Churchill, the 1st Duke of Marlborough, (of whom Winston was a direct descendant) and the Duke's insistence that France's Louis XIV posed an existential threat to Britain and its burgeoning empire, and had to be defeated at all costs.

By 1940, history was proving both Churchills, (John and Winston) right.

Roosevelt was a Chucrhillian in this regard since the mid-30s - appeasement being a flagrant display of weakness to rising powers.

I bet you'd find that a lot of the documents and
US Govt information from 1941 is still top secret.

They are hiding something.

Maybe... I doubt it., but... at least nothing that can be conclusively proved.

Put it this way... If Roosevelt had turned a blind eye, he would have been right to do so, anyway.

I bet that he may have been prepared to temporarily sacrifice Hawaii if that's what it took to waken the American people to the true threat of the Axis powers, or he calculated that Japan could do some damage, but that Hawaii was too remote for Japan to be a threat to the entire territory... but enough damage that he could justifiably declare war.

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Bobby.

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #16 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:31am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

Maybe... I doubt it., but... at least nothing that can be conclusively proved.

Put it this way... If Roosevelt had turned a blind eye, he would have been right to do so, anyway.

I bet that he may have been prepared to temporarily sacrifice Hawaii if that's what it took to waken the American people to the true threat of the Axis powers, or he calculated that Japan could do some damage, but that Hawaii was too remote for Japan to be a threat to the entire territory... but enough damage that he could justifiably declare war.

I agree -
people were saying on the same day it happened that the Yanks let it happen.
The UK, Australia and NZ were grateful that the USA was now in the war
as we all thought that Hitler and the Japs would win.

Pearl Harbor was the biggest mistake that Japan ever made.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #17 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:35am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

Maybe... I doubt it., but... at least nothing that can be conclusively proved.

Put it this way... If Roosevelt had turned a blind eye, he would have been right to do so, anyway.

I bet that he may have been prepared to temporarily sacrifice Hawaii if that's what it took to waken the American people to the true threat of the Axis powers, or he calculated that Japan could do some damage, but that Hawaii was too remote for Japan to be a threat to the entire territory... but enough damage that he could justifiably declare war.

I agree -
people were saying on the same day it happened that the Yanks let it happen.
The UK, Australia and NZ were grateful that the USA was now in the war
as we all thought that Hitler and the Japs would win.

Pearl Harbor was the biggest mistake that Japan ever made.

The Yanks did let it happen... due to popular isolationism and their approval of appeasement.

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Bobby.

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #18 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:40am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

Maybe... I doubt it., but... at least nothing that can be conclusively proved.

Put it this way... If Roosevelt had turned a blind eye, he would have been right to do so, anyway.

I bet that he may have been prepared to temporarily sacrifice Hawaii if that's what it took to waken the American people to the true threat of the Axis powers, or he calculated that Japan could do some damage, but that Hawaii was too remote for Japan to be a threat to the entire territory... but enough damage that he could justifiably declare war.

I agree -
people were saying on the same day it happened that the Yanks let it happen.
The UK, Australia and NZ were grateful that the USA was now in the war
as we all thought that Hitler and the Japs would win.

Pearl Harbor was the biggest mistake that Japan ever made.

The Yanks did let it happen... due to popular isolationism and their approval of appeasement.

Yep -
did you know Roosevelt promised not to enter the war in the previous election?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #19 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:48am

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:40am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:35am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:31am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:23am:

Maybe... I doubt it., but... at least nothing that can be conclusively proved.

Put it this way... If Roosevelt had turned a blind eye, he would have been right to do so, anyway.

I bet that he may have been prepared to temporarily sacrifice Hawaii if that's what it took to waken the American people to the true threat of the Axis powers, or he calculated that Japan could do some damage, but that Hawaii was too remote for Japan to be a threat to the entire territory... but enough damage that he could justifiably declare war.

I agree -
people were saying on the same day it happened that the Yanks let it happen.
The UK, Australia and NZ were grateful that the USA was now in the war
as we all thought that Hitler and the Japs would win.

Pearl Harbor was the biggest mistake that Japan ever made.

The Yanks did let it happen... due to popular isolationism and their approval of appeasement.

Yep -
did you know Roosevelt promised not to enter the war in the previous election?

Of course he did! He was a politician.

He had to contend with a pacifist and isolationist Congress representing an overwhelmingly popular isolationist public.

But when the US is attacked, a US president has sworn an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, not the people or individuals.

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SerialBrain9 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2338	Re: 83 years ago… Reply #20 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 1:16pm US Launches Strikes in Syria… Seriously - they are setting the world on fire again… the endless wars.. the endless excuses… The Endless “False Flags” that keep getting us into wars and NO ONE ever wakes up…
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SerialBrain9

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #21 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 1:30pm

Quote:

Prior to the attack, doctors and nurses were warned that an attack was coming, so they stockpiled supplies. On the day of the attack, according to witnesses writing to Senators years later, they noticed that no military reconnaissance planes were in the air anywhere on the island, which was not normal. They were told not to fire a shot without clearance from Washington.

Bobby - you might like to read through this article - it has original telegrams and news articles etc some unclassified

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/12/report-evidence-suggests-fdr-let-pearl-...

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Beware the Fury of a Patient Man.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #22 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 1:35pm

SerialBrain9 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 1:16pm:

US Launches Strikes in Syria…

Seriously - they are setting the world on fire again… the endless wars.. the endless excuses…

The Endless “False Flags” that keep getting us into wars and NO ONE ever wakes up…

They're hosing out the Shia sewage from the region.

Lebanon will be next to make peace with Israel, with the Abraham Accords put back on the region's agenda in a Sunni-ruled Muslim-Middle East.

Hopefully, the Kurds will be cut in this time.

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Bobby.

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #23 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:35pm

SerialBrain9 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 1:30pm:

Quote:

Prior to the attack, doctors and nurses were warned that an attack was coming, so they stockpiled supplies. On the day of the attack, according to witnesses writing to Senators years later, they noticed that no military reconnaissance planes were in the air anywhere on the island, which was not normal. They were told not to fire a shot without clearance from Washington.

Bobby - you might like to read through this article - it has original telegrams and news articles etc some unclassified

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/12/report-evidence-suggests-fdr-let-pearl-...

Thanks - that's a good read - I'll read more later.

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chimera

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #24 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:36pm

SerialBrain9 wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 1:30pm:

has original telegrams and news articles etc some unclassified

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/12/report-evidence-suggests-fdr-let-pearl-...

A couple of details:
1] 'On December 7th, Washington had notice of the break in Japanese relations at noon eastern standard time, which was 6:30AM Hawaii-time. This was 90 minutes before the attack. Hawaii was not notified because of what they said were “technical difficulties” that included a malfunctioning communications device. The message was sent after the attack was over'.
but....
' At 1:20 p.m. Washington time the attack on Pearl Harbor began. [Japanese envoys] Nomura and Kurusu reached the old State, War and Navy Building at 2:05 p.m.,. As they entered the building, Hull's phone rang. It was the President. He quickly gave his Secretary of State the few scraps of information which had come in, confirming what they already knew from Signal Corps decoding. The Japanese envoys were ushered into his office at 2:21 p.m. Nomura held out the translation and said apologetically, "I was instructed to hand this reply to you at 1 p.m."
The Glory and the Dream: A Narrative History of America 1932-1972 William Manchester

On December 7, 1941, two hours after the Japanese attack on American military installations at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, Japan declared war
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/japan-d...

2] On December 6th the Navy ordered the submarine nets protecting Pearl Harbor taken down for ‘regular maintenance.’
but....
https://www.navsource.org/archives/09/18/1800012.htm

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Bobby.

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Re: 83 years ago…
Reply #25 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:40pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:40am:

Yep -
did you know Roosevelt promised not to enter the war in the previous election?

Of course he did! He was a politician.

He had to contend with a pacifist and isolationist Congress representing an overwhelmingly popular isolationist public.

But when the US is attacked, a US president has sworn an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, not the people or individuals.

yes - it's here - only 1 year before - Nov 1940 -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Franklin_D._Roosevelt,_third_and_fou...

Roosevelt promised that,
"Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars."
Roosevelt won the 1940 election with 55% of the popular vote and
almost 85% of the electoral vote (449 to 82).

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11701 Armidale Gender:	Re: 83 years ago… Reply #26 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:42pm Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:40pm: sent into any foreign wars. Hawaii is not foreign.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 105874 Melbourne Gender:	Re: 83 years ago… Reply #27 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:53pm chimera wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:42pm: Bobby. wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:40pm: sent into any foreign wars. Hawaii is not foreign. Germany was a foreign country. Germany was first in line for some American justice.
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11701 Armidale Gender:	Re: 83 years ago… Reply #28 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:53pm wrong
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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42124	Re: 83 years ago… Reply #29 - Dec 9^th, 2024 at 2:55pm You're also forgetting that it was the Axis powers who declared war on the United States first. Tsk, tsk, tsk...
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