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Question: Do you support or oppose using Nuclear power in Australia?

Strongly Support    
  9 (60.0%)
Somewhat Support    
  1 (6.7%)
Strongly Oppose    
  2 (13.3%)
Somewhat Oppose    
  2 (13.3%)
Don't know    
  1 (6.7%)




Total votes: 15
« Created by: Captain Nemo on: Dec 13th, 2024 at 2:28pm »

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Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables (Read 4382 times)
Leroy
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #135 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:52pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:43pm:
Guess what blows 24 hours a day, Soren?  The wind.  Funny that, it nice complements the sun as a power source.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


3:55 am this morning Western Australian power demand was 2355Mw

Solar output 0%
Wind output 4.07%

not even enough to keep the street lights on or supply hospitals.

They have 638Mw of wind turbines but could only get 58Mw

They have 1,362Mw of solar and could get nothing from them

combined total of 2,000Mw of renewables and all they could produce was 58Mw.
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:57pm by Leroy »  

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Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #136 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:52pm
 
Belgarion wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:06pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 3:19pm:
Belgarion wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 1:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 9:37pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Belgarion, you really want the near impossible from everybody don't you. Tell us what, how about you explain why these developing countries are willing to invest billions of dollars (which they really don't have) in nuclear energy when more developed countries aren't?  I look forward to your response.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Look at the map. Most of the developed world and several less developed counties are investing in nuclear power.  Why? Because it works, unlike the renewables fantasy. There are up front costs, often exacerbated by anti nuclear activists and bureaucrats putting any obstacle they can in the way,  but nuclear provides.  Those nations who are not investing in nuclear, mainly in Europe, are buying energy from those nations who do have it.   

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nuclear-power-by-country


An interesting point but it still fails to answer the question.  How are developing nations which are supposedly investing in nuclear power going to handle ongoing costs such as that of waste storage?  How are they going to handle the costs required for the investment in the nuclear fuel?  Renewables are not a fantasy, renewables work and work well, Belgarion.  Indeed your charactising them as a fantasy shows how disconnected from reality you are.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

ps. Your map is wildly inaccurate.  According to it we have 10 reactors in operation in Australia.  We have two.


How do you see 10 reactors in Australia on that map?  As for renewables being a fantasy, how is your power bill lately? Have you noticed the increasing blackouts and the warnings from government about power usage, or the decision to allow the energy regulator to turn off your solar if deemed necessary?

All the above are a result of the ideological fantasy that so called 'renewables' can provide the power a modern nation needs, encouraged by the grifters who are making billions out of it.  But wait! There's more!:

https://www.thecivilengineer.org/news/solar-farms-and-wind-turbines-tested-and-f...


The map you originally put up showed 10 reactors in Australia (and most of the world).  It is incorrect because we only have two.

Renewables are quite capable of supplying a nation like Australia's energy needs.  Solar, Wind, Tidal (still to be explored), ocean currents, hydro-electric are a few of the ways we can exploit nature for energy, Belgarion.  Your attempt to paint them as useless is well, useless, capeche?  The energy exists, it just needs to be exploited.  If you don't agree with it, you can always move somewhere else.  Nuclear is expensive and dangerous.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #137 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:54pm
 
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:43pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 5:00pm:
I've never known a day with out sun.  You seem to be under the impression that solar cells don't work during daylight if there is cloud.  I think you'd need a dense fog to stop them working.  Even in a dense fog, Solar panels typically operate at about 50% efficiency in a dense fog. This is better than in dense cloud cover or overcast conditions when it falls to about 25% efficiency.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Power supply has to be 24 hours a day, electricity is required even when the sun goes down.


Guess what blows 24 hours a day, Soren?  The wind.  Funny that, it nice complements the sun as a power source.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Just like it did in Western Australia today, no wind and no solar.


So, the entire state was becalmed was it?  It was covered with dense cloud was it?  It was night time there was it, Soren for the entire 24 hours was it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Leroy
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #138 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:00pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:54pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:43pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 5:00pm:
I've never known a day with out sun.  You seem to be under the impression that solar cells don't work during daylight if there is cloud.  I think you'd need a dense fog to stop them working.  Even in a dense fog, Solar panels typically operate at about 50% efficiency in a dense fog. This is better than in dense cloud cover or overcast conditions when it falls to about 25% efficiency.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Power supply has to be 24 hours a day, electricity is required even when the sun goes down.


Guess what blows 24 hours a day, Soren?  The wind.  Funny that, it nice complements the sun as a power source.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Just like it did in Western Australia today, no wind and no solar.


So, the entire state was becalmed was it?  It was covered with dense cloud was it?  It was night time there was it, Soren for the entire 24 hours was it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes it was, the fleet of wind turbines stretch all the way across the state. There are times also when they have to lock the turbines down because the wind is to strong and they cant risk running them.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #139 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:06pm
 
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:54pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:43pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 5:00pm:
I've never known a day with out sun.  You seem to be under the impression that solar cells don't work during daylight if there is cloud.  I think you'd need a dense fog to stop them working.  Even in a dense fog, Solar panels typically operate at about 50% efficiency in a dense fog. This is better than in dense cloud cover or overcast conditions when it falls to about 25% efficiency.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Power supply has to be 24 hours a day, electricity is required even when the sun goes down.


Guess what blows 24 hours a day, Soren?  The wind.  Funny that, it nice complements the sun as a power source.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Just like it did in Western Australia today, no wind and no solar.


So, the entire state was becalmed was it?  It was covered with dense cloud was it?  It was night time there was it, Soren for the entire 24 hours was it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes it was, the fleet of wind turbines stretch all the way across the state. There are times also when they have to lock the turbines down because the wind is to strong and they cant risk running them.


So, what was stopping the Solar Cells from working, Soren?  Cloud cover?  Night time?  What? Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Leroy
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #140 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:17pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:00pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:54pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:45pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:43pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 5:00pm:
I've never known a day with out sun.  You seem to be under the impression that solar cells don't work during daylight if there is cloud.  I think you'd need a dense fog to stop them working.  Even in a dense fog, Solar panels typically operate at about 50% efficiency in a dense fog. This is better than in dense cloud cover or overcast conditions when it falls to about 25% efficiency.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Power supply has to be 24 hours a day, electricity is required even when the sun goes down.


Guess what blows 24 hours a day, Soren?  The wind.  Funny that, it nice complements the sun as a power source.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Just like it did in Western Australia today, no wind and no solar.


So, the entire state was becalmed was it?  It was covered with dense cloud was it?  It was night time there was it, Soren for the entire 24 hours was it?  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Yes it was, the fleet of wind turbines stretch all the way across the state. There are times also when they have to lock the turbines down because the wind is to strong and they cant risk running them.


So, what was stopping the Solar Cells from working, Soren?  Cloud cover?  Night time?  What? Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I'll let you figure that one out Karnal, it was 3:55am.
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Leroy
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #141 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:18pm
 
3:55 am this morning Western Australian power demand was 2355Mw

Solar output 0%
Wind output 4.07%

not even enough to keep the street lights on or supply hospitals.

They have 638Mw of wind turbines but could only get 58Mw

They have 1,362Mw of solar and could get nothing from them

combined total of 2,000Mw of renewables and all they could produce was 58Mw.
Back to top
 

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Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #142 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:42pm
 
Luckily, no one of consequence was awake at 3.55am.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #143 - Dec 12th, 2024 at 10:57pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #144 - Dec 13th, 2024 at 6:13am
 
Nothing more than a predictable Labor scare campaign devoid of facts…

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1734030151
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #145 - Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:03am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:42pm:
Luckily, no one of consequence was awake at 3.55am.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


I'm sure the emergency services, people on life support, heavy industry etc. will be glad to know they are of no consequence. Roll Eyes
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Belgarion
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #146 - Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:07am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:52pm:
Belgarion wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 8:06pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 3:19pm:
Belgarion wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 1:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 11th, 2024 at 9:37pm:
Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Belgarion, you really want the near impossible from everybody don't you. Tell us what, how about you explain why these developing countries are willing to invest billions of dollars (which they really don't have) in nuclear energy when more developed countries aren't?  I look forward to your response.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Look at the map. Most of the developed world and several less developed counties are investing in nuclear power.  Why? Because it works, unlike the renewables fantasy. There are up front costs, often exacerbated by anti nuclear activists and bureaucrats putting any obstacle they can in the way,  but nuclear provides.  Those nations who are not investing in nuclear, mainly in Europe, are buying energy from those nations who do have it.   

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nuclear-power-by-country


An interesting point but it still fails to answer the question.  How are developing nations which are supposedly investing in nuclear power going to handle ongoing costs such as that of waste storage?  How are they going to handle the costs required for the investment in the nuclear fuel?  Renewables are not a fantasy, renewables work and work well, Belgarion.  Indeed your charactising them as a fantasy shows how disconnected from reality you are.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

ps. Your map is wildly inaccurate.  According to it we have 10 reactors in operation in Australia.  We have two.


How do you see 10 reactors in Australia on that map?  As for renewables being a fantasy, how is your power bill lately? Have you noticed the increasing blackouts and the warnings from government about power usage, or the decision to allow the energy regulator to turn off your solar if deemed necessary?

All the above are a result of the ideological fantasy that so called 'renewables' can provide the power a modern nation needs, encouraged by the grifters who are making billions out of it.  But wait! There's more!:

https://www.thecivilengineer.org/news/solar-farms-and-wind-turbines-tested-and-f...


The map you originally put up showed 10 reactors in Australia (and most of the world).  It is incorrect because we only have two.

Renewables are quite capable of supplying a nation like Australia's energy needs.  Solar, Wind, Tidal (still to be explored), ocean currents, hydro-electric are a few of the ways we can exploit nature for energy, Belgarion.  Your attempt to paint them as useless is well, useless, capeche?  The energy exists, it just needs to be exploited.  If you don't agree with it, you can always move somewhere else.  Nuclear is expensive and dangerous.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


None of the methods you mention can supply smoothly regulated 24/7 power. As for going somewhere else, I trust that you and the other anti nuclear people will never travel overseas? Because if you did you will almost certainly be using electricity generated by nuclear power and that would be terribly hypocritical of you.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #147 - Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:27am
 
Leroy wrote on Dec 12th, 2024 at 9:18pm:
3:55 am this morning Western Australian power demand was 2355Mw

Solar output 0%
Wind output 4.07%

not even enough to keep the street lights on or supply hospitals.

They have 638Mw of wind turbines but could only get 58Mw

They have 1,362Mw of solar and could get nothing from them

combined total of 2,000Mw of renewables and all they could produce was 58Mw.


your source?

or are you going to run away again?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #148 - Dec 13th, 2024 at 10:42am
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Frank
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #149 - Dec 13th, 2024 at 10:55am
 
The Opposition Leader said the Prime Minister had not refuted modelling showing that Labor’s energy plan to rewire the grid for a renewable transition would cost five times more than the government had estimated.

Mr Dutton said the outfit commissioned to model the two proposals, Frontier Economics, was the “best in the business” and well placed to examine the costs.

“They’ve done millions of dollars of work in the Labor government,” he said.

“The Prime Minister never made a criticism about the assumptions in relation to the first report where it projected that Labor’s plan was going to cost about five times more than what they were telling you,

“And we got a well thought out plan here, and this has been a long time in the making.

“We have independent costings which provide that validation and the contrast between the two is significant.”

Mr Dutton said countries around the world had concluded that there was no hope of achieving zero emissions without nuclear power in the system.

“Australians are smarter than what the Prime Minister credits and Australians are well read,” he said.

“They understand what is happening internationally and that the latest technology nuclear is zero emissions, 24/7 baseload power so we don’t get the Labor blackouts and it’s going to bring prices down by 44 per cent compared to Labor’s cost, which will be the difference between families being able to pay their bills and not.”
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