Australian Politics Forum - Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables

freediver

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #210 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:42pm

Leroy wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:40pm:

John Smith wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:23pm:

Leroy wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:17pm:

over 40-50 years it will be much cheaper to have nuclear.

Only if you don't include costs of storing waste for the next 500yrs or build costs Cheesy

crap

If you want to be sensible we can have a discussion but if you are just going to be obstinate on a topic you are not familiar with then its pointless.

Are you saying that the costs are irrelevant to a discussion of the costs?

Do you work for the LNP by any chance?

Leroy wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:42pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:38pm:

I think they are right where they are needed. You can even put them in the CBD if you want.

If you put the solar panels in the CBD what will you use for power at night?.

You mean when everyone goes home?

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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #211 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:47pm

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:38pm:

What about the next 100000 years that you need to safely store the radioactive waste for?

Renewables are cheaper, even if you ignore the waste storage dilemma.

They have safe and cost effective means of storage. Short term (50 years) before final disposal.

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lee

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #212 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:49pm

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:38pm:

I think they are right where they are needed. You can even put them in the CBD if you want.

Yeah 180MW on 1070 acres. Grin

https://edifyenergy.com/project/daydream/.

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:38pm:

Quote:
but over 40-50 years it will be much cheaper to have nuclear.

Not my quote. Grin

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:38pm:

What about the next 100000 years that you need to safely store the radioactive waste for?

New reactors new technology uses "radioactive waste". Wink

Besides ever heard of Synroc?

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Leroy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 762 Gender:	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #213 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:49pm freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:42pm: You mean when everyone goes home? No I mean all the restaurants, hospitals, police, cleaners and millions of others that work after the sun goes down. Where is the power going to come from when the sun goes down?
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freediver

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #214 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:50pm

Leroy wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:47pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:38pm:

What about the next 100000 years that you need to safely store the radioactive waste for?

Renewables are cheaper, even if you ignore the waste storage dilemma.

They have safe and cost effective means of storage. Short term (50 years) before final disposal.

No they don't. All the waste is currently in some kind of temporary storage facility. Neither safe nor cheap. Occasionally it gets stolen by terrorists. Or leaks into the groundwater. No-one actually knows what it will cost to store it for the full life of the waste. You certainly don't.

And nuclear is already the most expensive option before you factor that into the price.

Quote:

Where is the power going to come from when the sun goes down?

Is that a rhetorical question, or do you really not know?

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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #215 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:55pm

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:42pm:

Are you saying that the costs are irrelevant to a discussion of the costs?

Do you work for the LNP by any chance?

It has been proven beyond doubt that Nuclear energy is the cheapest form of energy available today, thats not from me but from every single energy expert in the field. If you don't want nuclear power then I respect that, everyone has the right to express what they want and we should all respect each persons stance. But don't lie to me and say renewables are cheaper than Nuclear.

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Leroy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 762 Gender:	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #216 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:57pm freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 4:50pm: Is that a rhetorical question, or do you really not know? No its not a rhetorical question, if you don't have gas coal or nuclear power where are you going to get power at night?
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freediver

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #217 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:14pm

Quote:

It has been proven beyond doubt that Nuclear energy is the cheapest form of energy available today

No it hasn't. That's why wikipedia still lists it as the most expensive. Just how delusional is the LNP on this?

And that is excluding the cost of storing radioactive waste for 100000 years.

Quote:

No its not a rhetorical question, if you don't have gas coal or nuclear power where are you going to get power at night?

You can get it from any source you want. Even gas, coal or nuclear. Even if you have a solar panel on your roof.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17816 Gender:	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #218 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:24pm freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:14pm: No it hasn't. That's why wikipedia still lists it as the most expensive. How much are the required backup batteries for more than 10 hours?
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freediver

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #219 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:31pm

lee wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:24pm:

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:14pm:

No it hasn't. That's why wikipedia still lists it as the most expensive.

How much are the required backup batteries for more than 10 hours?

How long is a piece of string?

Do you need me to tell you how to ask the right question?

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lee

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #220 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 10:03pm

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:31pm:

Do you need me to tell you how to ask the right question?

No I need you to tell me the cost of a 10hr battery. Make it 1Mw for ease of use. I'll give you a hint.

lee wrote on Jan 10^th, 2025 at 10:43pm:

The capital cost of a 1 MWh BESS can vary depending on several factors, including the type of batteries used, the performance specifications of the system, and the installation location. Generally, lithium-ion batteries are more expensive than lead-acid batteries, but they offer better performance and a longer lifespan. The cost of a 1 MWh BESS can range from $500,000 to $1.5 million or more, depending on these factors.

https://www.ritarpower.com/industry_information/1-MWh-Battery-Energy-Storage-Sys...

So $500,000 for the cheapest, lead-acid. More for lithium.

So for 10 hours somewhere north 10x $500,000 and out to $150,000,000.

And that's just the capital cost. Maintenance etc has to be added.

Wink

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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #221 - Jan 13^th, 2025 at 10:18pm

freediver wrote on Jan 13^th, 2025 at 9:14pm:

Quote:

It has been proven beyond doubt that Nuclear energy is the cheapest form of energy available today

No it hasn't. That's why wikipedia still lists it as the most expensive. Just how delusional is the LNP on this?

And that is excluding the cost of storing radioactive waste for 100000 years.

Quote:

No its not a rhetorical question, if you don't have gas coal or nuclear power where are you going to get power at night?

You can get it from any source you want. Even gas, coal or nuclear. Even if you have a solar panel on your roof.

My car uses no petrol going down hills, very cheap to run, cheaper than having a motor. Its easy all you do is have a car with no engine and always go downhill. I can see no reason to buy an engine. Its far cheaper not having an engine.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49133 At my desk.	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #222 - Yesterday at 9:27am Quote: And that's just the capital cost. Maintenance etc has to be added. What maintenance do you do on a battery?
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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #223 - Yesterday at 9:51am

freediver wrote Yesterday at 9:27am:

Quote:

And that's just the capital cost. Maintenance etc has to be added.

What maintenance do you do on a battery?

They have to be monitored 24hrs a day, Voltages have to be monitored and and dead cells identified and replaced. Fire systems need to be checked, temperature control is maintained, system checks to ensure readiness. You dont just hook up some batteries and forget it.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49133 At my desk.	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #224 - Yesterday at 10:01am Quote: They have to be monitored 24hrs a day So what, you pay someone to stand there watching the battery?
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Poll
Question: Do you support or oppose using Nuclear power in Australia?
Strongly Support 9 (60.0%) Somewhat Support 1 (6.7%) Strongly Oppose 2 (13.3%) Somewhat Oppose 2 (13.3%) Don't know 1 (6.7%) Total votes: 15 « Created by: Captain Nemo on: Dec 13^th, 2024 at 2:28pm »