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Poll Poll
Question: Do you support or oppose using Nuclear power in Australia?

Strongly Support    
  9 (60.0%)
Somewhat Support    
  1 (6.7%)
Strongly Oppose    
  2 (13.3%)
Somewhat Oppose    
  2 (13.3%)
Don't know    
  1 (6.7%)




Total votes: 15
« Created by: Captain Nemo on: Dec 13th, 2024 at 2:28pm »

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Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables (Read 4278 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #15 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:44pm
 
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philperth2010
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #16 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:54pm
 
lee wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 3:54pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Hydro and batteries can be used for firming.



The CSIRO says the batteries are only good for short term. There is limited availability for pumped hydro, once the drowning of land gets noticed.

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built.


As compared to wind and Solar at around 30% efficiency?

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online..


You say that like it is a bad thing. Wink


Nuclear will provide 4% of Australia's energy needs....Were will the other 96% come from???

Huh Huh Huh

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/jun/26/coalition-nuclear...
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Belgarion
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #17 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 6:40pm
 
I see the anti nuclear Luddites are still in denial over the advantages of nuclear energy. Leaving aside the criminally false claims in this latest CSIRO report, yet more evidence that a once great scientific organisation has become a rubber stamp for vested political interests, these fools claims about nuclear power  are disproved entirely by the evidence from overseas,  yet they still persist.

Once AnAl and his cohorts are removed we can begin to bring this country into the 21st century.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #18 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 6:58pm
 
Asking chatGPT the simple unbiased question of how much it will cost to power Australia via renewables or nuclear using real world projects costs gives a revealing answer!

https://chatgpt.com/share/66f25d49-6ee0-8012-bb1b-ce934fec0070

Solar and wind will cost Trillions Nuclear will cost $220 billion

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #19 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 6:59pm
 
Trillions eh?

Grin Grin Grin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin Grin
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trillions_004.jpg (48 KB | 1 )
trillions_004.jpg

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lee
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #20 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 7:55pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 4:54pm:
Nuclear will provide 4% of Australia's energy needs..



From your reference -

So it was Bowen's claim. Not from any engineer or anything. Talk about grasping at straws.

From AEMO - "Over the 20-year forecast horizon, annual operational electricity consumption in the NEM is forecast to remain relatively flat, growing less than 6% over the forecast period (180,750 gigawatt hours (GWh) in 2016–17 to 191,049 GWh in 2036–37 in the Neutral scenario). "

https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/n...


SO 191049/8760 =21.8GW. To 2036-37

Back to the Guardian -"Solar and wind farms will need to rise six-fold by 2050 to reach 58GW and 69GW, respectively. Rooftop solar should roughly quadruple to 72GW by then, the report said."

So 200GW or 9 times overbuild to get us there.  Wink

Meanwhile AEMO expects usage to climb only 6% in 24 years. But we are all suoosed to be driving EV's by then. So a massive increase in EV's and only a piddling rise in consumption. Something does not add up.

"The 25-year plan did not model nuclear energy because the technology isn’t policy for any federal or state government and is banned. Aemo said nuclear was “one of the most expensive ways to generate electricity”, citing a CSIRO report."

Well there goes any cost estimate. Wink

"“[The] time it would take to design and build nuclear generation would be too slow to replace retiring coal-fired generation,” Aemo noted in an accompanying factsheet."

That is ONLY IF the coal plant are retired. They are running no need to stop them.

"Bowen claimed the Coalition policy would “see Australians pay hundreds of billions for the reactors alone”, which he said could provide “at best” 4% of Australia’s energy needs by 2050. It might add $1,000 a year to people’s energy bills, he said."

Meanwhile the ABC estimate is 8.5Billion each and apparently we require seven. Of course he didn't say what the cost of the subsidies for renewables would cost in that time frame.

"Renewable energy supplied almost 40% of electricity across the national electricity market (Nem) in 2023, and briefly topped 72% last October. The government is aiming for 82% of the Nem to be supplied by clean energy by 2030."

Spot the difference? In one they use a year's supply, in the other they use the best month for wind and solar.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/maps/averages/wind-velocity/?period=oct&maptype=10...

https://pv-map.apvi.org.au/analyses
Chart 5

More - "The market will also need 15GW of gas-fired generation by 2050, up from 11.5GW now, even if rarely used."

So on top of the necessary 200GW renewables we will still need another 3.5GW of gas.

Dreams writ large. Wink

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #21 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 8:43pm
 
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #22 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 8:44pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 8:43pm:

Oh, moron has spent all his words...


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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #23 - Dec 9th, 2024 at 8:45pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #24 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?
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philperth2010
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #25 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 10:42am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?


Exactly....Almost every blackout has been caused by failing Coal plants or severe weather conditions...Apparently (according to Lee) we need more coal and less renewables....Do you support Lee's bullshit FD???

Huh Huh Huh

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2024 at 10:48am by philperth2010 »  

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #26 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:49am
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 10:42am:
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?


Exactly....Almost every blackout has been caused by failing Coal plants or severe weather conditions...Apparently (according to Lee) we need more coal and less renewables....Do you support Lee's bullshit FD???

Huh Huh Huh

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Stopped clocks are right more often than Lee.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #27 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:59am
 
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?


Probably not many because coal the most reliable back up is used to prevent this from happening.

Coal fired power station can ramp up immediately to cover any shortfall from renewables. The reserve pressure in the coal fired boiler is fast to react.

If a coal fired plant fails renewables are not as quick to respond if they have any reserve but generally they are putting out maximum anyway.

Coal fired units are able to respond @10-15 mw/min depending on size.

When a cloud passes over panels or wind suddenly drops the shortfall is usually covered by coal plants, when a coal plant fails renewables generally cannot make up the shortfall.
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:09pm by Leroy »  

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lee
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #28 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.



So it wasn't a lack of coal. Roll Eyes
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philperth2010
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #29 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:29pm
 
Leroy wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:59am:
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?


Probably not many because coal the most reliable back up is used to prevent this from happening.

Bullshit....Do you have any evidence to prove your claim Coal is the most reliable back up for renewables....Coal is the most unreliable source of power and prone to shutdowns causing most of the blackouts....Gas is expensive and as demand grows it will only get more expensive....Batteries can be used to stabilize the grid as we have seen in South Australia!!!


Coal fired power station can ramp up immediately to cover any shortfall from renewables. The reserve pressure in the coal fired boiler is fast to react.

If a coal fired plant fails renewables are not as quick to respond if they have any reserve but generally they are putting out maximum anyway.

Batteries can react almost immediatly....Why bullshit???


Coal fired units are able to respond @10-15 mw/min depending on size.



When a cloud passes over panels or wind suddenly drops the shortfall is usually covered by coal plants, when a coal plant fails renewables generally cannot make up the shortfall.


Our aging coal power plants are unreliable and prone to shutting down in hot weather....They are also scheduled to be shut down by 2035 before any Nuclear Power plants can be built....Keeping coal fired power plants open for longer and relying on gas to make up the shortfall will only add more to power bills whilst doing little to address climate change!!!

Quote:
Ageing coal and gas generators getting less reliable, says AEMO


https://reneweconomy.com.au/ageing-coal-and-gas-generators-getting-less-reliable...

Quote:
A hot mess: summer blackouts and unreliable coal power, explained


https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/hot-mess-summer-blackouts-unreliable...

Quote:
Dutton’s nuclear plan would mean propping up coal for at least 12 more years – and we don’t know what it would cost


https://theconversation.com/duttons-nuclear-plan-would-mean-propping-up-coal-for...

Quote:
Origin Energy’s giant Eraring coal power station is one of a few in the national grid capable of ramping up and down as renewable energy supply fluctuates and is a model for the Australia Energy Regulator’s vision of flexible coal plants – but it is scheduled to retire by 2032.


https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/model-flexible-coal-plant-set-for-early-clo...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:37pm by philperth2010 »  

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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