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Poll Poll
Question: Do you support or oppose using Nuclear power in Australia?

Strongly Support    
  9 (60.0%)
Somewhat Support    
  1 (6.7%)
Strongly Oppose    
  2 (13.3%)
Somewhat Oppose    
  2 (13.3%)
Don't know    
  1 (6.7%)




Total votes: 15
« Created by: Captain Nemo on: Dec 13th, 2024 at 2:28pm »

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Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables (Read 4829 times)
lee
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #30 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:36pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 10:42am:
Exactly....Almost every blackout has been caused by failing Coal plants or severe weather conditions..


And not a lack of coal. You know like a lack of sunshine or a lack of wind. Wink

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 10:42am:
Apparently (according to Lee) we need more coal and less renewables.


So where exactly did I support more coal? Roll Eyes

You are getting more like tgd in reading between the lines.

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 10:42am:
https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...



Wow. The Climate Council, those bureaucrats who know nothing of nuclear, apart from what they were told on mummy's knee. Grin Grin Grin Grin

David Karoly - Climate alarmist

John Stone - Transport

Grant Blakshi - General practitioner and public health communicator

George Carter - Climate Diplomacy expert

Nicki Hutley - Economist - "She has extensive experience modelling the impacts of the CPRS, RET and Feed-in Tariff Schemes, undertaken over several years on behalf of Government, private sector, industry and peak body clients." so knowledge of how to access grants. Roll Eyes

Dinah Arndt - Climate Communications

Kirsten Tidswell - Media and Communications

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/about/team/

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lee
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #31 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:39pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:29pm:
Dutton’s nuclear plan would mean propping up coal for at least 12 more years – and we don’t know what it would cost


https://theconversation.com/duttons-nuclear-plan-would-mean-propping-up-coal-for
...


We also don't know what it will cost to build all the necessary, according to you, renewables. Or for how long. Roll Eyes
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Leroy
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #32 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:50pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:29pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:59am:
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?


Probably not many because coal the most reliable back up is used to prevent this from happening.

Bullshit....Do you have any evidence to prove your claim Coal is the most reliable back up for renewables....Coal is the most unreliable source of power and prone to shutdowns causing most of the blackouts....Gas is expensive and as demand grows it will only get more expensive....Batteries can be used to stabilize the grid as we have seen in South Australia!!!


Coal fired power station can ramp up immediately to cover any shortfall from renewables. The reserve pressure in the coal fired boiler is fast to react.

If a coal fired plant fails renewables are not as quick to respond if they have any reserve but generally they are putting out maximum anyway.

Batteries can react almost immediatly....Why bullshit???


Coal fired units are able to respond @10-15 mw/min depending on size.



When a cloud passes over panels or wind suddenly drops the shortfall is usually covered by coal plants, when a coal plant fails renewables generally cannot make up the shortfall.


Our aging coal power plants are unreliable and prone to shutting down in hot weather....They are also scheduled to be shut down by 2035 before any Nuclear Power plants can be built....Keeping coal fired power plants open for longer and relying on gas to make up the shortfall will only add more to power bills whilst doing little to address climate change!!!

Quote:
Ageing coal and gas generators getting less reliable, says AEMO


https://reneweconomy.com.au/ageing-coal-and-gas-generators-getting-less-reliable...

Quote:
A hot mess: summer blackouts and unreliable coal power, explained


https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/hot-mess-summer-blackouts-unreliable...

Quote:
Dutton’s nuclear plan would mean propping up coal for at least 12 more years – and we don’t know what it would cost


https://theconversation.com/duttons-nuclear-plan-would-mean-propping-up-coal-for...

Quote:
Origin Energy’s giant Eraring coal power station is one of a few in the national grid capable of ramping up and down as renewable energy supply fluctuates and is a model for the Australia Energy Regulator’s vision of flexible coal plants – but it is scheduled to retire by 2032.


https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/model-flexible-coal-plant-set-for-early-clo...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



I'll just give you just what I know.

AEMO have cut their maintenance on coal plants not wanting to overspend on coal plants due to decommissioning plans. This has lead to a less reliable system and in my mind sabotage.

Batteries are not the answer, even if you had 500mw/hr of battery power that gets you one hour, what happens then.

Thats assuming you have the ability to keep the batteries at full storage capacity.

At the moment the reliance on coal and gas when there is no wind or cloudy skies.

The only reason coal becomes a problem in hot weather is when you run them too hard but generally that has never been a problem. Wind turbines need to shut down in strong winds more often than coal plants due to hot weather.

Coal has proven beyond doubt it is the most consistent and reliable energy provider we have.

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #33 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:08pm
 
...
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Daves2017
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #34 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:14pm
 
The last black out due “ in part” to renewables-


“ On the afternoon of 28 September 2016, South Australia (SA) experienced a state-wide blackout. It was triggered by severe weather that damaged transmission and distribution assets, which was followed by reduced wind farm output and a loss of synchronism that caused the loss of the Heywood Interconnector.”

“ goggle
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Leroy
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #35 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:16pm
 
Daves2017 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:14pm:
The last black out due “ in part” to renewables-


“ On the afternoon of 28 September 2016, South Australia (SA) experienced a state-wide blackout. It was triggered by severe weather that damaged transmission and distribution assets, which was followed by reduced wind farm output and a loss of synchronism that caused the loss of the Heywood Interconnector.”

“ goggle


Wing turbines are locked down in sever weather for protection and obviously solar panels have very limited output.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #36 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:23pm
 
Daves2017 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:14pm:
The last black out due “ in part” to renewables-


“ On the afternoon of 28 September 2016, South Australia (SA) experienced a state-wide blackout. It was triggered by severe weather that damaged transmission and distribution assets, which was followed by reduced wind farm output and a loss of synchronism that caused the loss of the Heywood Interconnector.”

“ goggle


It was not due to renewables.  It was due to poor maintenance of the power transmission line towers.  They had been basically left to rot and not had any maintenance done on them.  They would have failed if renewables or non-renewables had supplied the power that they carried.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #37 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:25pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:23pm:
Daves2017 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:14pm:
The last black out due “ in part” to renewables-


“ On the afternoon of 28 September 2016, South Australia (SA) experienced a state-wide blackout. It was triggered by severe weather that damaged transmission and distribution assets, which was followed by reduced wind farm output and a loss of synchronism that caused the loss of the Heywood Interconnector.”

“ goggle


It was not due to renewables.  It was due to poor maintenance of the power transmission line towers.  They had been basically left to rot and not had any maintenance done on them.  They would have failed if renewables or non-renewables had supplied the power that they carried.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




Roll Eyes
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #38 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:51pm
 
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...



BS  Roll Eyes

It's never been unreliable

the infrastructure has been allowed to age with a lack of maintenance.

Why is "gas" the most expensive fossil fuel?

The export prices should have nothing to do with it's ready availability here.

Coal, Gas or nuclear infrastructure will last 3 times as long as renewables like solar & wind that have an average of 10 years before replacement is required.

So saying nuclear is twice the cost is a fallacy.

The CSIRO is a govt funded institution ... it's halcyon days are long gone ... and it affirms what the Govt want it to affirm.

Wouldn't be bought science?
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #39 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:54pm
 
Leroy wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:50pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 12:29pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 11:59am:
freediver wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 8:31am:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...


Much of QLD was plunged into blackout a few years ago because a coal fired power station threw a turbine.

When was the last time we had a blackout because of renewables?


Probably not many because coal the most reliable back up is used to prevent this from happening.

Bullshit....Do you have any evidence to prove your claim Coal is the most reliable back up for renewables....Coal is the most unreliable source of power and prone to shutdowns causing most of the blackouts....Gas is expensive and as demand grows it will only get more expensive....Batteries can be used to stabilize the grid as we have seen in South Australia!!!


Coal fired power station can ramp up immediately to cover any shortfall from renewables. The reserve pressure in the coal fired boiler is fast to react.

If a coal fired plant fails renewables are not as quick to respond if they have any reserve but generally they are putting out maximum anyway.

Batteries can react almost immediatly....Why bullshit???


Coal fired units are able to respond @10-15 mw/min depending on size.



When a cloud passes over panels or wind suddenly drops the shortfall is usually covered by coal plants, when a coal plant fails renewables generally cannot make up the shortfall.


Our aging coal power plants are unreliable and prone to shutting down in hot weather....They are also scheduled to be shut down by 2035 before any Nuclear Power plants can be built....Keeping coal fired power plants open for longer and relying on gas to make up the shortfall will only add more to power bills whilst doing little to address climate change!!!

Quote:
Ageing coal and gas generators getting less reliable, says AEMO


https://reneweconomy.com.au/ageing-coal-and-gas-generators-getting-less-reliable...

Quote:
A hot mess: summer blackouts and unreliable coal power, explained


https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/hot-mess-summer-blackouts-unreliable...

Quote:
Dutton’s nuclear plan would mean propping up coal for at least 12 more years – and we don’t know what it would cost


https://theconversation.com/duttons-nuclear-plan-would-mean-propping-up-coal-for...

Quote:
Origin Energy’s giant Eraring coal power station is one of a few in the national grid capable of ramping up and down as renewable energy supply fluctuates and is a model for the Australia Energy Regulator’s vision of flexible coal plants – but it is scheduled to retire by 2032.


https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/model-flexible-coal-plant-set-for-early-clo...

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



I'll just give you just what I know.

AEMO have cut their maintenance on coal plants not wanting to overspend on coal plants due to decommissioning plans. This has lead to a less reliable system and in my mind sabotage.

Batteries are not the answer, even if you had 500mw/hr of battery power that gets you one hour, what happens then.

Thats assuming you have the ability to keep the batteries at full storage capacity.

At the moment the reliance on coal and gas when there is no wind or cloudy skies.

The only reason coal becomes a problem in hot weather is when you run them too hard but generally that has never been a problem. Wind turbines need to shut down in strong winds more often than coal plants due to hot weather.

Coal has proven beyond doubt it is the most consistent and reliable energy provider we have.



100% correct

All these renewable numpties can thank coal for the lifestyles & amenities they enjoy.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #40 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:02pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:51pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...



BS  Roll Eyes

It's never been unreliable

the infrastructure has been allowed to age with a lack of maintenance.

Why is "gas" the most expensive fossil fuel?

The export prices should have nothing to do with it's ready availability here.

Coal, Gas or nuclear infrastructure will last 3 times as long as renewables like solar & wind that have an average of 10 years before replacement is required.

So saying nuclear is twice the cost is a fallacy.

The CSIRO is a govt funded institution ... it's halcyon days are long gone ... and it affirms what the Govt want it to affirm.

Wouldn't be bought science?


Gas is the most expensive but that is due to administrative burdens.

WA synergy providers have a gas contract which commits them to purchasing a set amount of gas regardless of them using it, even if they don't use it they still have to pay for it.

Each year synergy scramble to use reserve gas they have paid for but have not used. It is kept in reserve for emergencies but they lose what they don't use.

Coal plants are run inefficiently to cater for the flucuations of renewables, most coal plants run the most efficient at more than 80% capacity but because they need to have spinning reserve coal plants are turned down to 30-50% which makes them less efficient.



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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #41 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:04pm
 
Just to clarify, I'm all for renewables but lying about coal does not make renewables any more reliable.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #42 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:16pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:25pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:23pm:
Daves2017 wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:14pm:
The last black out due “ in part” to renewables-


“ On the afternoon of 28 September 2016, South Australia (SA) experienced a state-wide blackout. It was triggered by severe weather that damaged transmission and distribution assets, which was followed by reduced wind farm output and a loss of synchronism that caused the loss of the Heywood Interconnector.”

“ goggle


It was not due to renewables.  It was due to poor maintenance of the power transmission line towers.  They had been basically left to rot and not had any maintenance done on them.  They would have failed if renewables or non-renewables had supplied the power that they carried.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Roll Eyes


What's wrong, Aqua, don't you like the truth?  Do you prefer Dave's lies?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #43 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:26pm
 
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if nuclear power costs twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2  emissions ?





A "little man" once said "the jury is still out on climate change and global warming" and on getting our energy mix right we should "let the market decide" 

Well, the market HAS decided - and given the the whole "nuclear thing" the big THUMBS DOWN.

The set-up and construction costs begin at a "humble" ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS

$120,000,000,000.00


With "the market" refusing to get involved,
Dutton has already indicated
"my government" will be taking the socialist route - with his dream plants owned and paid for by "we, the people"


Not all at once, of course, but built in as a levy on the cost over the life of each plant - estimated to average around 30 years.
Not forgetting the 30-year-long levy on every watt of electricity created and supplied - to fund the disposal of nucleas waste.

If you add on the usual cost blowouts on any government project. the probable cost on completion would be closer to ...

$240,000,000,000.00




... and if we all live long enough, we may see the first light bulb fired - sometime after 2040








.
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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #44 - Dec 10th, 2024 at 3:33pm
 
Gnads wrote on Dec 10th, 2024 at 2:51pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:46am:
Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9th, 2024 at 10:09am:
I don't care if Nuclear power cost twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO2 emissions?


Hydro and batteries can be used for firming....Coal is unreliable as the infrastructure ages and no new coal fired power plants will be built....Gas is the most expensive fossil fuel and Nuclear is twice the cost of Renewable energy....If the Coalition builds Nuclear power plants investment in renewable energy will dry up due to the uncertainty of the investment when Nuclear comes online....The remaining Coal fired plants that currently provide 50% of Australia's power needs will need to be retired before the first Nuclear power plant is built....Australia cannot afford Peter Dutton or Nuclear power!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/nuclear-power-stations-are-not-appropriate-for...



BS  Roll Eyes

It's never been unreliable


the infrastructure has been allowed to age with a lack of maintenance.

Why is "gas" the most expensive fossil fuel?

The export prices should have nothing to do with it's ready availability here.

Coal, Gas or nuclear infrastructure will last 3 times as long as renewables like solar & wind that have an average of 10 years before replacement is required.

So saying nuclear is twice the cost is a fallacy.

The CSIRO is a govt funded institution ... it's halcyon days are long gone ... and it affirms what the Govt want it to affirm.

Wouldn't be bought science?


So we cannot rely on the scientists from the Government bodies that provide the information Politicians rely upon to make informed decisions....Instead you rely upon bullshit to push a false narative....The fact Coal power infrastructure has aged and is no longer reliable seams to escape you and instead you claim it is still reliable despite most being past their retirement age and being closed down by 2035....The Coalition used a Partisan report into renewables that was bought science whilst refusing to release any details of their own policy

Quote:
CSIRO refutes Coalition case nuclear is cheaper than renewable energy due to operating life
National science agency dismisses argument nuclear’s economics have not been adequately considered in new draft report


I note you have not provided any report that supports your bullshit....Provide evidence of your claims instead of claiming the experts are corrupt and wrong....Over too you dickhead to back up your bullshit!!!

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/dec/09/csiro-refutes-coalition-c...
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« Last Edit: Dec 10th, 2024 at 4:04pm by philperth2010 »  

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