Australian Politics Forum - Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables

buzzanddidj

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #60 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:04pm

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 2:14pm:

The last black out due “ in part” to renewables-

It was NEVER "about renewables"
It WAS about an unprecedented climate event of THREE very powerful cyclones hitting the regions, all back-to-back (climate change event, anyone ?)

There was the theory, by Abbott's Energy Minister, Turnbull, that wind and solar energy weighed more than fossill-fuelled electricity - crumbling supply towers - but I'M not buying it

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lee

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #61 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:13pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:04pm:

It WAS about an unprecedented climate event of THREE very powerful cyclones hitting the regions, all back-to-back (climate change event, anyone ?)

3 distinct weather events. Or don't you believe the WMO about climate - 30 years. Roll Eyes

But for the sake of argument which 3 are a sign of climate change? Roll Eyes

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philperth2010

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #62 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:19pm

Quote:

A hot mess: summer blackouts and unreliable coal power, explained

The Bureau of Meteorology is forecasting one of the hottest summers on record for Australia, which is bad news for our ageing coal power fleet. That’s because Australia’s coal-fired power stations are not only outdated, unreliable and polluting – but during summer, they’re prone to overheating and shutting down too.

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/hot-mess-summer-blackouts-unreliable...

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lee

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #63 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:52pm

From your reference -

"warmer than average days are likely across large parts of the country
warmer than average nights are very likely across almost all of Australia with an increased chance of unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide."

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/outlooks/#/overview/summary

Unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide - but not from unusually high daytime temperatures nationwide? Roll Eyes

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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #64 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 7:15pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 5:29pm:

How much would it cost to send a couple of kilos of nuclear waste into space using a rocket ship....Not to mention the risk if something goes wrong....The proposal is ridiculous and I doubt anyone accept you has suggested it....Can you support your claim Musk is considering this stupidity???

Huh

50 years ago when you were a teenager what were the chances of seeing an electric car or even a driverless car. What about a phone you could put in your pocket and make video calls to someone in another country. Never going to happen was it. You have been around a while and should know that never going to happen will always bite you. It will be in 30+ years which gives plenty of time to condition the public.

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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #65 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 7:26pm

Hot weather is not a problem for coal plants, coal fired power station can handle the hot weather quite well. The problem is people handling the hot weather. On hot days there is usually very little wind but solar panels are at full capacity until the evening when everyone turns on their air conditioners. Thats when things get tough, peak load and no wind and sun going down. Extra load is placed on coal with units pushed beyond their rated loads and this is where it gets critical, if one unit were to fall off and load is not shed fast enough ( I'm talking minute ) it could start a domino effect.

The coal plant would merrily run if its not pushed beyond capacity and too much load on the grid on the hottest of days.

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philperth2010

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #66 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 7:44pm

lee wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:52pm:

From your reference -

"warmer than average days are likely across large parts of the country
warmer than average nights are very likely across almost all of Australia with an increased chance of unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide."

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/outlooks/#/overview/summary

Unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide - but not from unusually high daytime temperatures nationwide? Roll Eyes

Okay???

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #67 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:13pm

Leroy wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 3:37pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 3:26pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Dec 9^th, 2024 at 10:09am:

I don't care if nuclear power costs twice as much as renewables.

I want 24/7 electricity and you either go with gas or coal to firm the supply or you go nuclear.

Which one out of nuclear; gas; coal has zero CO₂ emissions ?

A "little man" once said "the jury is still out on climate change and global warming" and on getting our energy mix right we should "let the market decide"

Well, the market HAS decided - and given the the whole "nuclear thing" the big THUMBS DOWN.

The set-up and construction costs begin at a "humble" ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY BILLION DOLLARS

$120,000,000,000.00

With "the market" refusing to get involved,
Dutton has already indicated

"my government" will be taking the socialist route - with his dream plants owned and paid for by "we, the people"

Not all at once, of course, but built in as a levy on the cost over the life of each plant - estimated to average around 30 years.
Not forgetting the 30-year-long levy on every watt of electricity created and supplied - to fund the disposal of nucleas waste.

If you add on the usual cost blowouts on any government project. the probable cost on completion would be closer to ...

$240,000,000,000.00

... and if we all live long enough, we may see the first light bulb fired - sometime after 2040

.

I'm not going to dispute your figures, but I do dispute what has happened ...

The market has spoken but only after it was given false and misleading information

... to get the result required. If the public were given the honest and real truth they may still reject nuclear power but at least the decision was made knowing the real state of electrical supply.

I'd think 'big energy' is MORE than capable of conducting its own research on the pros and cons of fossil fuels vs nuclear vs clean energy.

Particularly when there are hundreds of billions in investment dollars on the table
I doubt they're holding their breath awaiting the release of any government 'white paper' "

There have been just TWO new nuclear plants gone into construction in the US in almost a decade.
Over the same period in the US, THIRTY-SEVEN plants have been shut down - PERMANTLY
It is only in third world (developing) countries that you will find any growth in any nuclear power sector.

It is the energy of a yesteryear.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 47220 Gender:	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #68 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:19pm Well, the French, the Russians, Chinese, Swedes, Belgians, Koreans, indians etc must be total eejits - they have nuclear power plants. In Asia there are about 145 operable nuclear power reactors, about 45 under construction and firm plans to build an additional 50-60. Many more are proposed
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lee

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #69 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:23pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 7:44pm:

lee wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:52pm:

From your reference -

"warmer than average days are likely across large parts of the country
warmer than average nights are very likely across almost all of Australia with an increased chance of unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide."

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/outlooks/#/overview/summary

Unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide - but not from unusually high daytime temperatures nationwide? Roll Eyes

Okay???

So not -

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

The Bureau of Meteorology is forecasting one of the hottest summers on record for Australia

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Leroy

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #70 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:31pm

Frank wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:19pm:

Well, the French, the Russians, Chinese, Swedes, Belgians, Koreans, indians etc must be total eejits - they have nuclear power plants.

In Asia there are about 145 operable nuclear power reactors, about 45 under construction and firm plans to build an additional 50-60. Many more are proposed

China commissions a new coal fired power station every two weeks.

At the moment they have 1161 coal fired power stations.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42198	Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables Reply #71 - Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:34pm
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philperth2010

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #72 - Dec 11^th, 2024 at 3:17pm

lee wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 8:23pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 7:44pm:

lee wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:52pm:

From your reference -

"warmer than average days are likely across large parts of the country
warmer than average nights are very likely across almost all of Australia with an increased chance of unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide."

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/outlooks/#/overview/summary

Unusually high overnight temperatures nationwide - but not from unusually high daytime temperatures nationwide? Roll Eyes

Okay???

So not -

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

The Bureau of Meteorology is forecasting one of the hottest summers on record for Australia

The BOM have declared Australia facing one of the hottest summers on record....If you have any evidence the BOM is incorrect then post your evidence and prove the BOM wrong....Your pathetic opinion is worthless???

Quote:

Australia is facing one of the hottest summers on record according to the Bureau of Meteorology's (BOM) weather modelling, which tips well-above-average temperatures across the country.

The forecast for a scorching summer is largely due to ongoing high ocean temperatures surrounding Australia, a persistent feature that has plagued most of the globe since early last year.

The warm seas will not only raise air temperatures but also boost atmospheric moisture levels, swinging the odds to favour frequent storm outbreaks and above-average rain.

Our simmering oceans could also lead to the most active cyclone season in years, with the BOM expecting around 11 named storms in the Australian region, including an increased risk of severe (category three or above) systems.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-12/australia-facing-one-of-hottest-summers-o...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/daunting-map-reveals-australia-is...

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australia-facing-one-of-the-hottest-sum...

https://media.bom.gov.au/releases/1205/the-bureau-forecasts-an-unusually-warm-su...

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« Last Edit: Dec 11^th, 2024 at 3:25pm by philperth2010 »

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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philperth2010

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #73 - Dec 11^th, 2024 at 3:32pm

Leroy wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 7:15pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 5:29pm:

How much would it cost to send a couple of kilos of nuclear waste into space using a rocket ship....Not to mention the risk if something goes wrong....The proposal is ridiculous and I doubt anyone accept you has suggested it....Can you support your claim Musk is considering this stupidity???

Huh

50 years ago when you were a teenager what were the chances of seeing an electric car or even a driverless car. What about a phone you could put in your pocket and make video calls to someone in another country. Never going to happen was it. You have been around a while and should know that never going to happen will always bite you. It will be in 30+ years which gives plenty of time to condition the public.

I am still waiting for you to provide proof Elon Musk proposed sending Nuclear Waste into space a couple of kilos per rocket ship....Provide the evidence you relied upon to make this claim....All we have is your claim with nothing to support it....The idea is ridiculous???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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lee

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Re: Nuclear Power To Cost Twice As Much As Renewables
Reply #74 - Dec 11^th, 2024 at 4:24pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 3:17pm:

The BOM have declared Australia facing one of the hottest summers on record...

No that was the Climate Council, allegedly quoting BOM. The Climate Council are NOT BOM Roll Eyes

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 11^th, 2024 at 3:17pm:

If you have any evidence the BOM is incorrect then post your evidence and prove the BOM wrong

BOM itself said the summer days would be warmer than average

lee wrote on Dec 10^th, 2024 at 6:52pm:

"warmer than average days are likely across large parts of the country

Warmer than average is no claim to be the hottest evah. Averages are made up of warmer and cooler temperatures.

Nightime temperatures may be higher than average, but that also does not make it the hottest on record. Roll Eyes

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Poll
Question: Do you support or oppose using Nuclear power in Australia?
Strongly Support 9 (60.0%) Somewhat Support 1 (6.7%) Strongly Oppose 2 (13.3%) Somewhat Oppose 2 (13.3%) Don't know 1 (6.7%) Total votes: 15 « Created by: Captain Nemo on: Dec 13^th, 2024 at 2:28pm »