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Worst use of taxpayer funds ever (Read 945 times)
Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #30 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:54pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 11:56am:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 11:53am:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:13pm:
Jasin wrote on Dec 13th, 2024 at 7:05pm:
Albanese/ALP are ripping off Australians.
$450m to the Media for a fraudulent Voice
$20m to Hamas
$600m to NRL for expansion in PNG
BILLIONS to USA for Subs that are going to sink us.



$360 billion for only 8 subs when the Yanks pay about $5 billion each for them.
It doesn't add up.
Albo can't do arithmetic.


You really are a troll, Bobby.  It has been explained to you numerous times.  We are not just buying submarines, we are purchasing training, we are purchasing technology and we are purchasing the rights to build the subs.  All this does not come cheap.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



We are paying too much - it's a rip off -
the Yanks could make 45 submarines for that money.   Shocked


The Yanks look like they will have difficulties fulfilling the number we have ordered, Bobby.  The American shipyards are full and they do not have the spare capacity that we are calling for.  We are better off building our own if we are hell bent on doing this.  The only friendly nation with the capacity we need is perhaps the French.  The Brits are facing similar problems to the Americans.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #31 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm  

Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #32 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm:
Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.


That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #33 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:11pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm:
Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.


That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



$227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #34 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:16pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm:
Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.


That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


$227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off


And the other things we are paying for, Bobby?  Why should the Americans give us those expensive things for free?   Is it because they like our accents and our surfing that much?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #35 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:22pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm:
Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.


That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


$227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off


And the other things we are paying for, Bobby?  Why should the Americans give us those expensive things for free?   Is it because they like our accents and our surfing that much?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



We all know why Brian.
It's the "free" nuclear umbrella we get which isn't free.

Instead of the Yanks sending us an invoice for our share of the multi $trillions
they spend on nukes, they overcharge us for subs and everything else.
It's an accounting slight of hand.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #36 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:16pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:11pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:08pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 2:59pm:
Still Brian - the arithmetic is telling.

A$360 billion = US$227 billion.

The Virginia class subs cost US$5 billion each according to Wiki.

227/ 5 =  45.

So we could have 45 subs instead of only 8 subs for that money -
that's if there was spare capacity to make them.
Jesus Christ - we're getting so ripped off and my simple maths
is never mentioned on TV or radio -
it's covered up by the Ministry of Truth.


That is based on 2004 prices, Bobby.  The cost of subs has increased since then.  According to Gizmodo Magazine they cost on average 9 billion US Dollars each nowadays.  Then we have all the extras we are paying for.  You seem unwilling to admit that such things cost anything.  Why? 'Cause it demolishes your trolling posts.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


$227b/9b =   25 submarines.  Still a rip off


And the other things we are paying for, Bobby?  Why should the Americans give us those expensive things for free?   Is it because they like our accents and our surfing that much?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


We all know why Brian.
It's the "free" nuclear umbrella we get which isn't free.

Instead of the Yanks sending us an invoice for our share of the multi $trillions
they spend on nukes, they overcharge us for subs and everything else.
It's an accounting slight of hand.


Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #37 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.

The nuclear weapons have become a millstone around the Yanks necks -
the cost to keep them operational and up to date is well over US$1 trillion - to be spent as of now.
The plutonium pits have to be pulled out every 10 years and the neutron initiators replaced and
the solid fuel has to be removed and replaced too as it doesn't last long either.
Very old pits have to be melted down and remade -
many other parts have to be upgraded and modernized.
A lot of the designs are from the 1960s and 1970s.   Embarrassed
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #38 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.


Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #39 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.


Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes




Good grief -

try buying military parts -
you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents.
yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  Roll Eyes

I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000
and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500.

The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #40 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:37pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.


Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Good grief -

try buying military parts -
you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents.
yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  Roll Eyes

I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000
and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500.

The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything.


Did you ever watch "West Wing" when it was popular on TV?  There was on episode where one character demonstrated to another why ashtrays cost so much more on US submarines.  They don't shatter, they just break.  In order to get work like that you must pay for it.  You must pay for materials, testing, etc. to prove that it doesn't shatter.  Those things cost.  They cost a lot.  Yes, sometimes the manufacturers over-charge on replacement parts but often they under-charge.  Bolts cost because they must be made especially, far more than low-quality civilian bolts.  You'd send servicepeople into battle with weapons that malfunction, aircraft/tanks/ships that don't work when they are needed.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #41 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:42pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:37pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.


Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Good grief -

try buying military parts -
you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents.
yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  Roll Eyes

I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000
and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500.

The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything.


Did you ever watch "West Wing" when it was popular on TV?  There was on episode where one character demonstrated to another why ashtrays cost so much more on US submarines.  They don't shatter, they just break.  In order to get work like that you must pay for it.  You must pay for materials, testing, etc. to prove that it doesn't shatter.  Those things cost.  They cost a lot.  Yes, sometimes the manufacturers over-charge on replacement parts but often they under-charge.  Bolts cost because they must be made especially, far more than low-quality civilian bolts.  You'd send servicepeople into battle with weapons that malfunction, aircraft/tanks/ships that don't work when they are needed.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



In the example I gave -
you were paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate -
and all the middle men on the way.
I would say that the testing for that certificate would be one day's work - at most.   Roll Eyes

And yes - you couldn't install that part on a military machine without that certificate.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #42 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:19pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:42pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:37pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:28pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 4:21pm:
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:39pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 3:27pm:
Gee, how do they then make the Europeans, the Canadians, the Asian nations like Japan and Taiwan pay for their supposed share of this supposedly free nuclear umbrella?  Seems to me like these get it all for free.  We have to pay, hey?  What a shame we have to pay.  Do you think we are paying enough for a nuclear umbrella that doesn't really cover Australia?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Brian,
all those countries pay for the nuclear umbrella too
by inflated prices for military purchases.


Really? Care to provide a few examples of these supposedly over-inflated prices? I look forward to the fantasy reading in your Trollish post, Bobby.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes


Good grief -

try buying military parts -
you'll pay $100 for a bolt you can find at Bunnings for 50 cents.
yes - a bolt used in a non critical area.  Roll Eyes

I saw a part once that was selling for $32,000
and it could be bought elsewhere direct from the factory but without a certificate for $3,500.

The whole military industrial complex is a rip off - for everything.


Did you ever watch "West Wing" when it was popular on TV?  There was on episode where one character demonstrated to another why ashtrays cost so much more on US submarines.  They don't shatter, they just break.  In order to get work like that you must pay for it.  You must pay for materials, testing, etc. to prove that it doesn't shatter.  Those things cost.  They cost a lot.  Yes, sometimes the manufacturers over-charge on replacement parts but often they under-charge.  Bolts cost because they must be made especially, far more than low-quality civilian bolts.  You'd send servicepeople into battle with weapons that malfunction, aircraft/tanks/ships that don't work when they are needed.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



In the example I gave -
you were paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate -
and all the middle men on the way.
I would say that the testing for that certificate would be one day's work - at most.   Roll Eyes

And yes - you couldn't install that part on a military machine without that certificate.


The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Bobby.
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #43 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:29pm  
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:19pm:
The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



That is not my point of contention.
of course I wouldn't want anything without a CoC - A “Certificate of Conformance”
as a component in something that could cost my life.
The point is that they are making almost all of their money on the CoC -
in my example which I saw with my own eyes -
paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate -
that is excessive -
it wouldn't stand up in a time of total war -
they just get away with it in peacetime.   Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Re: Worst use of taxpayer funds ever
Reply #44 - Dec 14th, 2024 at 9:31pm  
Bobby. wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:29pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Dec 14th, 2024 at 8:19pm:
The certificate costs, yes, Bobby and without the certificate you have no proof that it is made to Specification.  Not being made to specification means that it might not work the way it is wanted to, when it is wanted to.  Would you trust your life to such a component?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



That is not my point of contention.
of course I wouldn't want anything without a CoC - A “Certificate of Conformance”
as a component in something that could cost my life.
The point is that they are making almost all of their money on the CoC -
in my example which I saw with my own eyes -
paying $3,500 for the part and $28,500 for the certificate -
that is excessive -
it wouldn't stand up in a time of total war -
they just get away with it in peacetime.   Roll Eyes


My, my, how naive and foolish you are, Bobby.  You expect highly skilled to work for nought to produce your Certificate?  Oh, dearie, dearie, me, you really are foolish you expect everything to be free.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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