Australian Politics Forum - Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US

chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11435 armidale Gender:	Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US Reply #150 - Yesterday at 6:00am You may need to ask the owners: https://www.royal.uk/union-jack They may call you in for an official reprimand, Sir.
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Marla

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #151 - Yesterday at 6:20am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:51am:

And as I’ve frequently said before, what has wealth got to do with what is essentially a moral issue?

Go have a look at the countries that have strict gun laws and higher murder rates than the US.

No idea on where you're pulling this out of your ass. I never mentioned wealth and as for "other countries" per capita America is way in the lead when it comes to gun violence and gun deaths.

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I know progress has no patience but something's got to give

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Marla Gold Member Offline Weed is my Jesus Posts: 13603 Colorado Gender:	Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US Reply #152 - Yesterday at 6:23am Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm: The USA does not get a mention... Yeah, why is that? Couldn't be due to the NRA and Republican suppression statistical gun violence/death to the CDC, could it? ?
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mothra

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #153 - Yesterday at 6:25am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

No it doesn't.

The only country with a higher death rate from guns is Brazil.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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mothra

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #154 - Yesterday at 6:26am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #155 - Yesterday at 10:12am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

Studies show a positive correlation between poverty and youth crime (and the youth become adults if they survive).

And other studies show higher levels of inequality within a nation are also correlated with higher crime rates.

And higher poverty and crime rates are associated with increased violence against persons, including murder (regardless of weapon type).

(all which you can confirm with google).

And even allowing for the c.50% of gun deaths in the US which are suicides, the US gun-murder rate is still higher than in other wealthy countries (who also happen to restrict gun access).

Quote:

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

Your erroneous conclusions explained above.

Mexico isn't in that top 10 list either, but it's much worse than the US, being poorer and with extreme wealth inequality; yet the rich US, also with extreme inequality, is much worse than other more equal wealthy countries, the EU, Japan, Australia (who restrict gun access).

Which suggests getting rid of systemic poverty and extreme inequality will create less violent communities.

And maybe that greedy private health insurer who was executed (by gun, at a distance) in New York recently would still be alive, if the US had government-funded health care like most other wealthy countries....

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:33am by thegreatdivide »

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #156 - Yesterday at 11:31am

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Just wow

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #157 - Yesterday at 11:32am

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

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Self defence is a right.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #158 - Yesterday at 11:35am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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New England, NSW
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #159 - Yesterday at 11:43am

Marla wrote Yesterday at 6:20am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:51am:

And as I’ve frequently said before, what has wealth got to do with what is essentially a moral issue?

Go have a look at the countries that have strict gun laws and higher murder rates than the US.

No idea on where you're pulling this out of your ass. I never mentioned wealth and as for "other countries" per capita America is way in the lead when it comes to gun violence and gun deaths.

I assure you Maria that I would never mistreat a donkey.

The US is way down the per capita list, and if it is so bad, why are so many people trying to get in?

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Self defence is a right.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #160 - Yesterday at 11:47am

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 11:35am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

Then why are not all who die of lung problems not lumpedin with smokers who die of lung problems?

Might just be because it would skew the totals.

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Self defence is a right.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Posts: 2204
New England, NSW
Gender: male

Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #161 - Yesterday at 11:52am

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 10:12am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

Studies show a positive correlation between poverty and youth crime (and the youth become adults if they survive).

And other studies show higher levels of inequality within a nation are also correlated with higher crime rates.

And higher poverty and crime rates are associated with increased violence against persons, including murder (regardless of weapon type).

(all which you can confirm with google).

And even allowing for the c.50% of gun deaths in the US which are suicides, the US gun-murder rate is still higher than in other wealthy countries (who also happen to restrict gun access).

Quote:

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

Your erroneous conclusions explained above.

Mexico isn't in that top 10 list either, but it's much worse than the US, being poorer and with extreme wealth inequality; yet the rich US, also with extreme inequality, is much worse than other more equal wealthy countries, the EU, Japan, Australia (who restrict gun access).

Which suggests getting rid of systemic poverty and extreme inequality will create less violent communities.

And maybe that greedy private health insurer who was executed (by gun, at a distance) in New York recently would still be alive, if the US had government-funded health care like most other wealthy countries....

Then why are not all poor countries so prone to violence, perhaps they are more moral?

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Self defence is a right.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Posts: 2204
New England, NSW
Gender: male

Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #162 - Yesterday at 11:59am

Hey, Phil,

When are you going to tell us about all the rapid fire rifles and shotguns that were banned?

‘’ Shortly after a mass shooting in Tasmania, Australia banned rapid-fire rifles and shotguns and tightened licensing rules. Over the next decade, gun deaths dropped by 51%.’’

Facts are that no firearms were banned at all; where do you get your information?
-

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Self defence is a right.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 41814	Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US Reply #163 - Yesterday at 12:06pm
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #164 - Yesterday at 12:12pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:52am:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 10:12am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

Studies show a positive correlation between poverty and youth crime (and the youth become adults if they survive).

And other studies show higher levels of inequality within a nation are also correlated with higher crime rates.

And higher poverty and crime rates are associated with increased violence against persons, including murder (regardless of weapon type).

(all which you can confirm with google).

And even allowing for the c.50% of gun deaths in the US which are suicides, the US gun-murder rate is still higher than in other wealthy countries (who also happen to restrict gun access).

Quote:

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

Your erroneous conclusions explained above.

Mexico isn't in that top 10 list either, but it's much worse than the US, being poorer and with extreme wealth inequality; yet the rich US, also with extreme inequality, is much worse than other more equal wealthy countries, the EU, Japan, Australia (who restrict gun access).

Which suggests getting rid of systemic poverty and extreme inequality will create less violent communities.

And maybe that greedy private health insurer who was executed (by gun, at a distance) in New York recently would still be alive, if the US had government-funded health care like most other wealthy countries....

Then why are not all poor countries so prone to violence, perhaps they are more moral?

Did you miss the studies which show extremes of wealth inequality are also a factor in poverty-related crime rates, in poor and rich nations?

eg, the US is the most unequal rich nation with high homicide rates cf other more equal rich countries, while Bhutan is poor yet with low homicide rates AND lower inequality than the US.

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