Australian Politics Forum - Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US

greggerypeccary

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #165 - Yesterday at 12:21pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 11:35am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

Then why are not all who die of lung problems not lumpedin with smokers who die of lung problems?

Might just be because it would skew the totals.

You twist and turn more than a cheap garden hose.

Stick to the basic facts.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

1. Brazil - 49,437

2. United States - 37,040

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chimera

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #166 - Yesterday at 12:49pm

The South American countries listed have links to drugs and so money for guns. This may not happen in other poor countries. Even with the drug problems, people go to US with its gun deaths, for the money. Does Eoin say gun deaths don't matter?
The argument for guns means the US with the highest gun-ownership rate must be the safest country. yeah, right.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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New England, NSW
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #167 - Yesterday at 2:07pm

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 12:21pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 11:35am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

Then why are not all who die of lung problems not lumpedin with smokers who die of lung problems?

Might just be because it would skew the totals.

You twist and turn more than a cheap garden hose.

Stick to the basic facts.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

1. Brazil - 49,437

2. United States - 37,040

What you quote are misleading, the rate is what matters and as I said counting suicides in with murders, accidents and justifiable homicide is not only misleading but insulting to the people who exercised their legal rights to end their own lives, they took a life certainly but they harmed no one but themselves, to equate them with murderers is completely unjustified.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #168 - Yesterday at 2:13pm

chimera wrote Yesterday at 12:49pm:

The South American countries listed have links to drugs and so money for guns. This may not happen in other poor countries. Even with the drug problems, people go to US with its gun deaths, for the money. Does Eoin say gun deaths don't matter?
The argument for guns means the US with the highest gun-ownership rate must be the safest country. yeah, right.

And the argument that more guns means more gun deaths is invalid, if it were true then theUS having the most civilian owned guns ought to have the highest rate of gun deaths, which clearly it does not.

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Self defence is a right.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48178 Gender:	Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US Reply #169 - Yesterday at 2:17pm Maybe they should ban cars too. They kill more people and just in from Germany folks....
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

chimera

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #170 - Yesterday at 2:43pm

The shape of O is a circle. EOin in a circle.
Social conditions influence crime and so gun deaths. (repeated 673 times so far).
Guns don't prevent deaths, they promote them. The US has highest gun deaths in western cultures with prosperity. It's obvious to all except 90 year olds that deadly weapons are deadly.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11435 armidale Gender:	Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US Reply #171 - Yesterday at 2:46pm Cars are normally not intended as weapons. This may include Jasin. They are 1/2 ton at 100kmh for valid reasons, not being murder or suicide.
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Sir Eoin O Fada

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New England, NSW
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #172 - Yesterday at 2:56pm

Jasin wrote Yesterday at 2:17pm:

Maybe they should ban cars too. They kill more people and just in from Germany folks....

The Government does ban some cars for some people.
In NSW P plate drivers were/are banned from driving V8 engined cars because, presumably, of their power.
So P platers couldn’t drive a Ford V8 of 60 horsepower but they could drive a Riley 2.5 four cylinder with 110 horsepower.

Makes sense?

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #173 - Yesterday at 3:08pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 12:21pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 11:35am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

Then why are not all who die of lung problems not lumpedin with smokers who die of lung problems?

Might just be because it would skew the totals.

You twist and turn more than a cheap garden hose.

Stick to the basic facts.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

1. Brazil - 49,437

2. United States - 37,040

What you quote are misleading, ....

I'm posting the facts.

You're the one trying to mislead everyone.

If someone commits suicide with a gun, they die as a result of a shooting.

FFS, how on earth are you so blind to this fact?

I'm posting the real figures - you're cherry picking stats and then moving the goal posts in order to support your flawed argument.

A gun death is a gun death.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Posts: 2204
New England, NSW
Gender: male

Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #174 - Yesterday at 3:11pm

chimera wrote Yesterday at 2:43pm:

The shape of O is a circle. EOin in a circle.
Social conditions influence crime and so gun deaths. (repeated 673 times so far).
Guns don't prevent deaths, they promote them. The US has highest gun deaths in western cultures with prosperity. It's obvious to all except 90 year olds that deadly weapons are deadly.

It is also obvious that O is not a circle, certainly not on my laptop keyboard.
Nor in most handwriting scripts.

From Wikipedia,
‘’ A circle is a shape consisting of all points in a plane that are at a given distance from a given point, the centre. The distance between any point of the circle and the centre is called the radius. The length of a line segment connecting two points on the circle and passing through the centre is called the diameter. A circle bounds a region of the plane called a disc.’’
Now you know.

Guns do prevent deaths and it was because of guns and men who were prepared to use them that you don’t have to speak Japanese or use one of the unwieldy Japanese typewriters.

Edit. There are 14 ‘o’s in your post, not one of them is a circle.

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 3:28pm by Sir Eoin O Fada »

Self defence is a right.

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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Posts: 2204
New England, NSW
Gender: male

Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #175 - Yesterday at 3:25pm

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 3:08pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 12:21pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 11:35am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

Then why are not all who die of lung problems not lumpedin with smokers who die of lung problems?

Might just be because it would skew the totals.

You twist and turn more than a cheap garden hose.

Stick to the basic facts.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

1. Brazil - 49,437

2. United States - 37,040

What you quote are misleading, ....

I'm posting the facts.

You're the one trying to mislead everyone.

If someone commits suicide with a gun, they die as a result of a shooting.

FFS, how on earth are you so blind to this fact?

I'm posting the real figures - you're cherry picking stats and then moving the goal posts in order to support your flawed argument.

A gun death is a gun death.

And a rate per hundred thousand is a standard statistic tool.
Total numbers of anything when not related to the population is completely meaningless.

Murder is far more meaningful and the US murder rate is low compared to many countries, totals with suicide attached to murder is a demeaning and misleading strategy.
Murder rates per country reflect the chance of being murdered in that country.
Suicides skew the figures because they don’t increase the chance of being murdered.

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Self defence is a right.

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greggerypeccary

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Posts: 137383
Gender: male

Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #176 - Yesterday at 3:38pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 3:25pm:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 3:08pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 2:07pm:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 12:21pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:47am:

greggerypeccary wrote Yesterday at 11:35am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 11:32am:

mothra wrote Yesterday at 6:26am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 8:09pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 6:19pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 4:07pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Dec 20^th, 2024 at 3:44pm:

A bit of relevant information.

Nah, not relevent, see below:

Quote:

‘’ Mass Shootings by Country
Mass shootings are defined differently across the world, ....

Who gives a sh*t about definitions of mass killings; the highest gun deaths among first world countries(ie, in the US) is the relevant information.

What I’d like to know, and perchance you can tell me, is, what has the status of the country got to do with it?
Mexico has a higher gun death rate than the US, why do you not have a go at it ?

‘’Countries with the Highest Rates of Violent Gun Death (Homicides) per 100k residents in 2019

Venezuela 37.31
El Salvador 36.51
Guatemala 32.49
United States Virgin Islands 27.09
Colombia 24.90
Brazil 23.32
Puerto Rico 21.10
Bahamas 20.43
Belize 19.66
Honduras 19.32

The USA does not get a mention, the data is a bit old but things haven’t changed much since then.
So, if you’re really concerned about gun deaths there’s 10 countries that could fulfil your needs.

You're just looking at homicides.

If you look at all causes, the US comes in at number 2.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

Brazil - 49,437

United States - 37,040

All causes includes suicide which, as I’ve said, is a legal category of gun deaths so should not be counted in with illegal categories and if memory serves me right, accounts for around 42%./55% depending on the source of the information.
Totals of anything are misleading that’s why rate is used by statisticians when comparing data relating to population.

You can't make this stuff up.

Amazing.

Moreover suicide being legal, those that try to stop it are interfering in the legal rights of others, and lumping it in with criminal acts is denigrating the lawful actions of those who choose to exercise their freedom of choice.

It's being "lumped in" with people who die from a gunshot wound.

FFS Roll Eyes

Then why are not all who die of lung problems not lumpedin with smokers who die of lung problems?

Might just be because it would skew the totals.

You twist and turn more than a cheap garden hose.

Stick to the basic facts.

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019:

1. Brazil - 49,437

2. United States - 37,040

What you quote are misleading, ....

I'm posting the facts.

You're the one trying to mislead everyone.

If someone commits suicide with a gun, they die as a result of a shooting.

FFS, how on earth are you so blind to this fact?

I'm posting the real figures - you're cherry picking stats and then moving the goal posts in order to support your flawed argument.

A gun death is a gun death.

And a rate per hundred thousand is a standard statistic tool.
Total numbers of anything when not related to the population is completely meaningless.

Murder is far more meaningful and the US murder rate is low compared to many countries, totals with suicide attached to murder is a demeaning and misleading strategy.
Murder rates per country reflect the chance of being murdered in that country.
Suicides skew the figures because they don’t increase the chance of being murdered.

If someone commits suicide with a gun, they die as a result of a shooting.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11435 armidale Gender:	Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US Reply #177 - Yesterday at 3:49pm Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 2:56pm: The Government does ban some cars for some people. Makes sense? Irrelevant in the context of firing a weapon. Kids can't open some pill bottles but murder or suicide is not kids' intent as a rule and not the intent for the pills.
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chimera

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Posts: 11435
armidale
Gender: male

Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #178 - Yesterday at 3:53pm

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 3:11pm:

chimera: The shape of O is a circle.

It is also obvious that O is not a circle,
Guns do prevent deaths and it was because of guns and men who were prepared to use them that you don’t have to speak Japanese or use one of the unwieldy Japanese typewriters.

To reasonable people, O is a circle so it's not for Eoin.
Do you mean that guns allow Australians to shoot Japs on sight in Australia? A dead Jap is alive. Jap guns saved Australian soldiers. Eoin is round the circle.

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 4:31pm by chimera »

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Sir Eoin O Fada

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New England, NSW
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Re: Yet another mass shooting in a school in the US
Reply #179 - Yesterday at 4:26pm

chimera wrote Yesterday at 3:49pm:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 2:56pm:

The Government does ban some cars for some people.
Makes sense?

Irrelevant in the context of firing a weapon. Kids can't open some pill bottles but murder or suicide is not kids' intent as a rule and not the intent for the pills.

Jasin raised it not me.

But it does illustrate how stupid some Government rules are.

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