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Americas health system (Read 841 times)
Leroy
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #30 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:24am
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 10:47am:
Leroy wrote on Dec 18th, 2024 at 9:36am:
Thats the big fear, if RFK can make the system better then the qualified people will look stupid.


Good.

Their system is a dysfunctional mess. Yet both he and Trump are operating from within the very party responsible for creating and perpetuating that chaos. If RFK Jr. starts pushing for changes that genuinely threaten their objectives, his tenure will be short-lived.

It's deeply frustrating because, while the man is undoubtedly a lunatic, he happens to be correct about some health issues.

That said, his body count, fueled by the consequences of his reckless anti-vaccine rhetoric, likely surpasses even the most exaggerated claims about the Clintons.


What improvements were made in the last four years under Biden and Harris. Have they put the health system on the path to solve the problems. What exactly did they do about the condition of the health problems in communities?.

When Trump won in 2016 there were cries that he would destroy the country, he would start WW3, he was working for Putin and on it went. Nothing happened, he ran the country and everything went just fine. He created jobs, unemployment went down, wages went up , people were seeing improvement.

I don't think its wise to keep predicting what is going to happen especially after getting it wrong so many times. (not you but generally)
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #31 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:58am
 
Leroy wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:24am:
What improvements were made in the last four years under Biden and Harris.


This is by no means a complete list, but I don't believe your question to be one seeking a legitimate answer by the way you've framed it so I won't waste more time putting a complete list together.  But anyway:

Strengthening the Affordable Care Act via the American Rescue Plan Act.

Executive Order 14070: Signed in April 2022, this order directed federal agencies to expand affordable coverage, improve quality, and strengthen benefits under the ACA.

Reducing Prescription Drug Costs via the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.

Expanding Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.

Coverage of Traditional Health Practices: The Biden administration approved amendments allowing Medicaid and CHIP to cover traditional health practices provided by Indian Health Service facilities, Tribal facilities, and urban Indian organisations.

Mental Health Parity Rule: In September 2024, the administration finalized a rule ensuring that mental health care coverage for approximately 175 million Americans is on par with physical health care coverage, aiming to lower costs and improve access to mental health and substance use care.

Rural Health Funding: In September 2024, the administration announced a $75 million investment to support healthcare services in rural America, addressing disparities in access and quality of care.

Quote:
When Trump won in 2016 there were cries that he would destroy the country, he would start WW3, he was working for Putin and on it went. Nothing happened, he ran the country and everything went just fine. He created jobs, unemployment went down, wages went up , people were seeing improvement.


Off topic, nothing to do with healthcare.

Quote:
I don't think its wise to keep predicting what is going to happen especially after getting it wrong so many times. (not you but generally)


If you'd like to talk about healthcare predictions, it was predicted for Trump's first term given his campaign rhetoric that his changes to the healthcare system would cause the loss of coverage for millions, result in higher costs for vulnerable populations, create a destabilisation of insurance markets and increase health disparities.

These predictions all came true.

And now, all we know about his plans for his second term is that he has "concepts of a plan".

Given his track record, the lunatic he's put in a prominent health role and the total lack of a plan, the outlook is grim.

But the whole point was, if RFK Jr does anything to actually improve the system that puts the current status quo at risk, which is a necessity to actually fix it, Trump and the Republicans are the wrong banner to do this under.

They will stop him or even just remove him from the role quick smart.
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philperth2010
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #32 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:10pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:58am:
Leroy wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:24am:
What improvements were made in the last four years under Biden and Harris.


This is by no means a complete list, but I don't believe your question to be one seeking a legitimate answer by the way you've framed it so I won't waste more time putting a complete list together.  But anyway:

Strengthening the Affordable Care Act via the American Rescue Plan Act.

Executive Order 14070: Signed in April 2022, this order directed federal agencies to expand affordable coverage, improve quality, and strengthen benefits under the ACA.

Reducing Prescription Drug Costs via the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.

Expanding Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.

Coverage of Traditional Health Practices: The Biden administration approved amendments allowing Medicaid and CHIP to cover traditional health practices provided by Indian Health Service facilities, Tribal facilities, and urban Indian organisations.

Mental Health Parity Rule: In September 2024, the administration finalized a rule ensuring that mental health care coverage for approximately 175 million Americans is on par with physical health care coverage, aiming to lower costs and improve access to mental health and substance use care.

Rural Health Funding: In September 2024, the administration announced a $75 million investment to support healthcare services in rural America, addressing disparities in access and quality of care.

Quote:
When Trump won in 2016 there were cries that he would destroy the country, he would start WW3, he was working for Putin and on it went. Nothing happened, he ran the country and everything went just fine. He created jobs, unemployment went down, wages went up , people were seeing improvement.


Off topic, nothing to do with healthcare.

Quote:
I don't think its wise to keep predicting what is going to happen especially after getting it wrong so many times. (not you but generally)


If you'd like to talk about healthcare predictions, it was predicted for Trump's first term given his campaign rhetoric that his changes to the healthcare system would cause the loss of coverage for millions, result in higher costs for vulnerable populations, create a destabilisation of insurance markets and increase health disparities.

These predictions all came true.

And now, all we know about his plans for his second term is that he has "concepts of a plan".

Given his track record, the lunatic he's put in a prominent health role and the total lack of a plan, the outlook is grim.

But the whole point was, if RFK Jr does anything to actually improve the system that puts the current status quo at risk, which is a necessity to actually fix it, Trump and the Republicans are the wrong banner to do this under.

They will stop him or even just remove him from the role quick smart.


You are 100% correct Mr Roo!!!

Smiley Smiley Smiley

https://theconversation.com/health-care-under-harris-versus-trump-a-public-healt...
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aquascoot
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #33 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:24pm
 
one of the problems with the american system is that obama made a law under obamacare that health insurers can only make 15 % profit on their business.

if you are limited to a certain % , then the only way to "grow profits" (which is what business will always do)  is to "do more proceedures , more admissions, more overservicing'

this leads to higher premiums and to more profit

as an example, in oz, we do 2nd yearly poo sampling to check for bowel cancer. cost about $30 a screen

american health insurers want 2nd yearly colonoscopies to check for bowel cancer. cost about $1500 a screen


ozempic the new wonder weight loss drug is 6 x the cost in america as in europe
a preventative asthma puffer is 6 x the cost as in canada (hence why americans go to canada to get meds)

but the perverse incentive from obamacare is that by paying out all these "higher prices" under health insurance, the pie of costs grows and grows and the 15 % does not grow but profits grow,

hopefully trump sorts this out, he is a businessman after all

also JFK, dr mark hyman, dr kacey means are all HUGE on primary care, nutrition, preventative health, exercise and stopping the over servicing in proceedures and in medications to fix every problem. so they may be able to revers the trend

even ozempic is going to cost americans a trillion a year if the current system continues into next year. and it looks like it will be a lifelong treatment

far better to get people to hit the gym, eat fruit and cancel the drug
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #34 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:54pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
one of the problems with the american system is that obama ........

Aww, please...

The US health system has been a sick joke (no pun intended) since successive administrations started winding back Johnson's Medicare.

The Reagan Administration wanked it a bit by passing a law that forced hospitals to accept and treat any patient regardless of insurance or financial status. Then forgot about it... the upshot is that people present at an ER with, say, a bad cold instead of paying through the nose for a GP.

Health insurance companies regularly either refuse to pay medical expenses or change the cover rules on the fly to justify denying a claim.

For someone who can afford a lawyer, the game to play is when health insurance companies refuse to pay for treatment and the hospital comes to you for the money, DO NOT PAY!

Have your lawyer refer them back to the company. With a bit of luck, the hospital will get the point—no one is going to pay.
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aquascoot
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #35 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:12pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:54pm:
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
one of the problems with the american system is that obama ........

Aww, please...

The US health system has been a sick joke (no pun intended) since successive administrations started winding back Johnson's Medicare.

The Reagan Administration wanked it a bit by passing a law that forced hospitals to accept and treat any patient regardless of insurance or financial status. Then forgot about it... the upshot is that people present at an ER with, say, a bad cold instead of paying through the nose for a GP.

Health insurance companies regularly either refuse to pay medical expenses or change the cover rules on the fly to justify denying a claim.

For someone who can afford a lawyer, the game to play is when health insurance companies refuse to pay for treatment and the hospital comes to you for the money, DO NOT PAY!

Have your lawyer refer them back to the company. With a bit of luck, the hospital will get the point—no one is going to pay.



so an open ended system where the only way the big players can make more money is to grow the system is fine by you?

i can see you arent a businessman either  Grin Grin
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #36 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:17pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:12pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:54pm:
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
one of the problems with the american system is that obama ........

Aww, please...

The US health system has been a sick joke (no pun intended) since successive administrations started winding back Johnson's Medicare.

The Reagan Administration wanked it a bit by passing a law that forced hospitals to accept and treat any patient regardless of insurance or financial status. Then forgot about it... the upshot is that people present at an ER with, say, a bad cold instead of paying through the nose for a GP.

Health insurance companies regularly either refuse to pay medical expenses or change the cover rules on the fly to justify denying a claim.

For someone who can afford a lawyer, the game to play is when health insurance companies refuse to pay for treatment and the hospital comes to you for the money, DO NOT PAY!

Have your lawyer refer them back to the company. With a bit of luck, the hospital will get the point—no one is going to pay.



so an open ended system where the only way the big players can make more money is to grow the system is fine by you?

i can see you arent a businessman either  Grin Grin

Can you see why Luigi Mangione is seen as a hero?

Could be that he might not be convictable by a jury of his peers...

A killer 'exonerated' due to the US health system.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #37 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:23pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:58am:
Leroy wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 11:24am:
What improvements were made in the last four years under Biden and Harris.


This is by no means a complete list, but I don't believe your question to be one seeking a legitimate answer by the way you've framed it so I won't waste more time putting a complete list together.  But anyway:

Strengthening the Affordable Care Act via the American Rescue Plan Act.

Executive Order 14070: Signed in April 2022, this order directed federal agencies to expand affordable coverage, improve quality, and strengthen benefits under the ACA.

Reducing Prescription Drug Costs via the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022.

Expanding Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.

Coverage of Traditional Health Practices: The Biden administration approved amendments allowing Medicaid and CHIP to cover traditional health practices provided by Indian Health Service facilities, Tribal facilities, and urban Indian organisations.

Mental Health Parity Rule: In September 2024, the administration finalized a rule ensuring that mental health care coverage for approximately 175 million Americans is on par with physical health care coverage, aiming to lower costs and improve access to mental health and substance use care.

Rural Health Funding: In September 2024, the administration announced a $75 million investment to support healthcare services in rural America, addressing disparities in access and quality of care.

Quote:
When Trump won in 2016 there were cries that he would destroy the country, he would start WW3, he was working for Putin and on it went. Nothing happened, he ran the country and everything went just fine. He created jobs, unemployment went down, wages went up , people were seeing improvement.


Off topic, nothing to do with healthcare.

Quote:
I don't think its wise to keep predicting what is going to happen especially after getting it wrong so many times. (not you but generally)


If you'd like to talk about healthcare predictions, it was predicted for Trump's first term given his campaign rhetoric that his changes to the healthcare system would cause the loss of coverage for millions, result in higher costs for vulnerable populations, create a destabilisation of insurance markets and increase health disparities.

These predictions all came true.

And now, all we know about his plans for his second term is that he has "concepts of a plan".

Given his track record, the lunatic he's put in a prominent health role and the total lack of a plan, the outlook is grim.

But the whole point was, if RFK Jr does anything to actually improve the system that puts the current status quo at risk, which is a necessity to actually fix it, Trump and the Republicans are the wrong banner to do this under.

They will stop him or even just remove him from the role quick smart.


Nice, informative post.

Perhaps Leroy could now tell us what improvements were made in the four years under Trump and Pence.
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aquascoot
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #38 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:35pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:17pm:
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:12pm:
MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:54pm:
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:24pm:
one of the problems with the american system is that obama ........

Aww, please...

The US health system has been a sick joke (no pun intended) since successive administrations started winding back Johnson's Medicare.

The Reagan Administration wanked it a bit by passing a law that forced hospitals to accept and treat any patient regardless of insurance or financial status. Then forgot about it... the upshot is that people present at an ER with, say, a bad cold instead of paying through the nose for a GP.

Health insurance companies regularly either refuse to pay medical expenses or change the cover rules on the fly to justify denying a claim.

For someone who can afford a lawyer, the game to play is when health insurance companies refuse to pay for treatment and the hospital comes to you for the money, DO NOT PAY!

Have your lawyer refer them back to the company. With a bit of luck, the hospital will get the point—no one is going to pay.



so an open ended system where the only way the big players can make more money is to grow the system is fine by you?

i can see you arent a businessman either  Grin Grin

Can you see why Luigi Mangione is seen as a hero?

Could be that he might not be convictable by a jury of his peers...

A killer 'exonerated' due to the US health system.



the US health system is the way it is because of the incentives built into the system

if you are a player who will get zero dollars for arranging a fat child to recieve good nutrition and exercise , you will not do that

if you are a player who will get 1000's of dollars by putting that child on life long $1000 a month injections to control obesity you will do that.

change the incentives (as rfk, hyman and means intend to do) and you change the behaviour
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aquascoot
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #39 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:37pm
 
The rather bizarre advice from the "paid off" american paediatric society  Roll Eyes
rather expensive too  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Depending on the degree of obesity in the child, the AAP guideline further recommends integrating anti-obesity medications (such as metformin and GLP-1 receptor agonists) and potentially bariatric surgery with IHBLT to treat the condition. These medications have been shown to be safe and effective treatment options for children 12 years and older.
Just this year, the FDA also approved Wegovy (semaglutide) as a weight loss treatment for adolescents above age 12 years, increasing options for teens struggling with unhealthy weight.

Bariatric surgery should also be considered in children ages 13 years and older with severe obesity, according to the new AAP guidance. Although a more drastic approach, bariatric surgery can be particularly successful in maintaining a lower and healthier BMI. Anti-obesity medications and bariatric surgery are approaches that are more often used in adult populations but evidence suggests that they are safe and effective for some children as well.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #40 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:43pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:35pm:
(as rfk, intend to do) and you change the behaviour

Yes... As he did in Samoa - encouraged the government not to vaccinate children for measles, resulting in 89 deaths of children from measles and thousands of hospitalisations of children.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #41 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 2:00pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:43pm:
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:35pm:
(as rfk, intend to do) and you change the behaviour

Yes... As he did in Samoa - encouraged the government not to vaccinate children for measles, resulting in 89 deaths of children from measles and thousands of hospitalisations of children.


How many American children is RFK Jr. going to kill?   Cry

“The Samoan establishment handled the whole situation really badly and did not take the support and advice that was provided to them at the time, which is what allowed this to unravel and let RFK get in there,” Petousis-Harris said.

“When you get people who are wealthy and influential going into a fragile setting, it’s like the top of the food chain visiting and meeting up with those who act as the megaphone. The impact was devastating.” The resurgence of disease when vaccine rates go down is predictable, she said.

Kennedy has spread false claims that the MMR vaccines cause autism. According to the Centre for Countering Digital Hate, he is one of the world’s top disinformation super-spreaders. Public health officials in Samoa said anti-vaccination activists had been empowered by Kennedy, which had affected vaccine uptake.
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aquascoot
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #42 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 2:03pm
 
kennedy has said that he will be supportive of the current vaccine schedule (as indeed he should)
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #43 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 5:45pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 2:03pm:
kennedy has said that he will be supportive of the current vaccine schedule (as indeed he should)


Well, if that's what he said that's good enough for me.

If you can't believe this man, then who can you believe?

...
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Mortdooley
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Re: Americas health system
Reply #44 - Dec 19th, 2024 at 9:44pm
 
Karnal wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 1:01am:
Mortdooley wrote on Dec 19th, 2024 at 12:28am:
Karnal wrote on Dec 18th, 2024 at 10:26pm:
Mortdooley wrote on Dec 18th, 2024 at 10:22pm:
Leroy wrote on Dec 18th, 2024 at 9:36am:
America have one of the worst health systems in the world. They have had qualified and health experts run the system and yet it is still one of the worst in the world.

But they take pride in their health system and do not want unqualified people running it and ruining their poor record.

Thats the big fear, if RFK can make the system better then the qualified people will look stupid.



Tell us all about your personal experience with the American health care system.


Don't go all sourpuss on us, Mort. Leroy's just saying.

On Day 1, you Septics will have a completely awesome new health system, courtesy of your DL.

You watch. I'm sure Leroy will recant his views completely in another month's time, mkay?



All I am asking is for any of you to tell me about your first hand knowledge using the American medical system. You're full of opinions but without experience.


Sure, but first I have a question. How much do you pay to see your doctor?

After that, how much do you pay for your meds?

And when you're done with that, how much do you pay for your health insurance?

Answer me that, and I'll give you my entire history with the American health care system.



Our price to see the Doctor is a $30 co-pay.

My prescriptions are generally under $20 with insurance.

I pay a little over $300 per month for family coverage. It is a better system than charging the public an extra dollar for a gallon of motor fuel and claiming health coverage is free.

Our medical costs for treatments are generally under $100. Something more serious is a case by case situation and I couldn't guess those costs to patients.

One friend of mine was in a coma for about a month before he died. The medical bills were over one million dollars, his coverage paid it all. His family was billed nothing.

My brother became suddenly ill, spent the day in the emergency room and died that same day. Medical care cost over $140,000, his estate part of the bill was less than $90.

People with chronic illnesses incur some high medical bills and even they see most of their medical care covered or forgiven. We are good friends with a morbidly obese couple and their monthly prescription cost is several hundred dollars a month. However their occasional hospital stays cost them very little.
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