Australian Politics Forum - First Nations?

UnSubRocky

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #15 - Dec 24^th, 2024 at 12:32pm

Switzerland, Italy, France, Belgium, China, and India have genuinely become nations. There are areas of China and India that have wanted to seek their own independence. But, in general, the region is made up of interconnected language and cultural groups that interact generally peacefully.

Indigenous Australia were either at war with each other, or showed a mutual respect. The reason why there was not 10 million indigenous Australians on the continent at the time of the European arrival was because it was difficult for the indigenous people to survive beyond 40 years of age. Not saying that many British explorers made it much pass 60 years of age. But the telling difference is that the British explorers settled the area with a system of taming the wild, rather than living with the problems that indigenous people had to endure.

Europeans had no obligation to look after indigenous Australians during the first 100 years of colonisation. The fact is, the European explorers had to defend themselves from the attacks that indigenous Australians perpetuated against them.

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At this stage...

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 84562 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: First Nations? Reply #16 - Dec 24^th, 2024 at 5:29pm They've developed massively from their early origins - The Akubra Effect... they have schools they don't largely go to; scholarships that a few take up; affirmative action for decades now; basic needs met in cash and homing. Now it's time to advance themselves....
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Frank

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #17 - Dec 24^th, 2024 at 5:47pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 24^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 4:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 3:38pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 1:55pm:

Good video, says it all.

There was no nation, just a bunch of dispersed and disconnected rudimentary hunter gatherers who had little to do with other groups outside of their local areas.

And who is to say that they cannot develop a sense of nationhood post settlement? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Yes - it's called Australian.... tsk, tsk, tsk.

A nation that has essentially ignored their development throughout it's short history.

Quote:

So now some hypothetical 'sense of nationhood' means they were and are a nation?

They are as much a nation as any other. Most nations consist of disparate cultural and language groups. Switzerland has three distinct language and cultural groups. Italy has many cultural groups. France many. Belgium two. China hundreds, India many. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Most nations have a history that binds them, a shared culture, literature, art, affinity and solidarity that brings them together. It is a distinctly European notion, evident only in European and European- derived countries/cultures. Even Japan is a European-derivided nation in this sense, from the 19th century.
This is why most Asian, Arab and African countries are not nations.
Aborigines certainly aren't. I would hazard that almost all Aboriginal self-understanding is thanks to British colonisation: writing down their stories, languages, post-1788 history, self-consciouness AS Aborigines. Their entire Aboriginal identity is possible only because of the arrival of the British.

Aborigines had no history, no shared culture,

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Gnads

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #18 - Dec 24^th, 2024 at 10:04pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 3:38pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 1:55pm:

Good video, says it all.

There was no nation, just a bunch of dispersed and disconnected rudimentary hunter gatherers who had little to do with other groups outside of their local areas.

And who is to say that they cannot develop a sense of nationhood post settlement? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

And how is that relevant to the fact there were no First Nations......

which is what is being espoused by activists along with the Frontier Wars furphy.

What never was can not be in todays Australia.

Seems you would be one to push the lie long enough until it becomes the truth.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #19 - Dec 24^th, 2024 at 10:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 24^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 4:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 3:38pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 1:55pm:

Good video, says it all.

There was no nation, just a bunch of dispersed and disconnected rudimentary hunter gatherers who had little to do with other groups outside of their local areas.

And who is to say that they cannot develop a sense of nationhood post settlement? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Yes - it's called Australian.... tsk, tsk, tsk.

A nation that has essentially ignored their development throughout it's short history.

Quote:

So now some hypothetical 'sense of nationhood' means they were and are a nation?

They are as much a nation as any other. Most nations consist of disparate cultural and language groups. Switzerland has three distinct language and cultural groups. Italy has many cultural groups. France many. Belgium two. China hundreds, India many. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

No they are not .... and you either didn't watch that video clip or you're ignoring it to continue your pushing of the lie.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2236 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: First Nations? Reply #20 - Dec 25^th, 2024 at 7:03am First Notion.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #21 - Dec 25^th, 2024 at 12:44pm

The same problems in Nu Zulland with all the 'activists' and poseurs with a bit of Maori leading the rush for some sort of 'sovereignty' and demanding two governments. On SBS right now.

Demonstrations carrying war clubs and such, Thorpe type carrying on Parliament, twisted thinking about realities, unwillingness to be under the same laws as everyone else and accept that they have equal rights.

Maybe they need a Two State Solution.....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #22 - Dec 25^th, 2024 at 7:09pm

Merry social construct oppressive patriarchal and paternalistic White Person's Christmas to all those of the First etc Invaders all the way up to The Big One in 1788 that brought civilisation and Merry Christmas all year round for the indolent from the cargo cult that just keeps on giving... and then Merry Christmas to all our later Invaders including our Muslim friends - may they live in and thrive on the tolerance of living in a nation based on Christian values.

And a special shout out to our friends in Syria, whether they be Muslims or Christians or whatever... may they live in peace and harmony for all time now that the Oppressor has been overthrown.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48317 Gender:	Re: First Nations? Reply #23 - Dec 25^th, 2024 at 7:56pm Maori of NZ and 'blacks' of Australia are using the threat of future violence if they don't get their way. The Media supports them and manipulates them into believing it's all the fault of that Union Jack on the Flag. ...which is like Italy whispering in their ears "Blame British politics, not mine"
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #24 - Yesterday at 11:14am

Jasin wrote on Dec 25^th, 2024 at 7:56pm:

Maori of NZ and 'blacks' of Australia are using the threat of future violence if they don't get their way.
The Media supports them and manipulates them into believing it's all the fault of that Union Jack on the Flag.

...which is like Italy whispering in their ears "Blame British politics, not mine"

The Maori march down the street carrying weapons.... our mobs - all countless thousands of them all mixed up with every other race, content themselves with doing crime and criminal lawfare, with the help of the mindless media and many 'governments' about to Fall, in their Intifada ...... I see no good coming from this...

Rudd should never have raised the arse by saying 'sorry' and actually expecting that to be the end of it .... but politicians by and large are blessed with cunning and not intelligence.... look at the 'future leaders' currently going through universities etc.... the ones who mark papers can't handle paper clips, plastic page covers or heaven forbid - staples... they should have extra letters FPCPCS.. Frightened of Paper Clips, Page Covers and Staples... OH & S you know - they might cut a finger once in every 500,000 pages... due to lack of manual skills and training in depth... and the possible danger to their mental and physical health is potentially disastrous...

Never been the same since they pushed forward too many sheilas.... at least The People are starting to wake up - become the Truly
Woke - following Albo's 'voice' debacle and the ongoing lawfare.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Frank

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Re: First Nations?
Reply #25 - Yesterday at 1:01pm

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 24^th, 2024 at 12:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 4:30pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 3:38pm:

Gordon wrote on Dec 23^rd, 2024 at 1:55pm:

Good video, says it all.

There was no nation, just a bunch of dispersed and disconnected rudimentary hunter gatherers who had little to do with other groups outside of their local areas.

And who is to say that they cannot develop a sense of nationhood post settlement? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Yes - it's called Australian.... tsk, tsk, tsk.

A nation that has essentially ignored their development throughout it's short history.

Quote:

So now some hypothetical 'sense of nationhood' means they were and are a nation?

They are as much a nation as any other. Most nations consist of disparate cultural and language groups. Switzerland has three distinct language and cultural groups. Italy has many cultural groups. France many. Belgium two. China hundreds, India many. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

Who the hell wants to be like China or India???

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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