Australian Politics Forum - Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays

Dnarever

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #105 - Dec 30^th, 2024 at 10:20pm

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated.

Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context.

Speculating on can - can put us into la la land.

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Leroy

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #106 - Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:07pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 10:20pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated.

Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context.

Speculating on can - can put us into la la land.

My apologies I will fix it,

Unions are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

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Dnarever

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #107 - Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:26pm

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 10:20pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated.

Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context.

Speculating on can - can put us into la la land.

My apologies I will fix it,

Unions are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Substitute making it a statement of fact in the business side examples and see if you think that makes it more accurate

Businesses are run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

I don't see an improvement in fact it seems to move further away from being true. I would say it is a bit rare on either side of the fence while there are clearly bad unions and also terrible employers. I don't think either are the majority.

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Leroy

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #108 - Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:38pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:26pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 11:07pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 10:20pm:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Businesses can be run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

Business can be infiltrated by groups due to their board membership, voting gets manipulated.

Can is a big word, or does it really mean much in this type of context.

Speculating on can - can put us into la la land.

My apologies I will fix it,

Unions are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Substitute making it a statement of fact in the business side examples and see if you think that makes it more accurate

Businesses are run by criminal employers who do not pay correct rates and force unsafe working conditions.

I don't see an improvement in fact it seems to move further away from being true. I would say it is a bit rare on either side of the fence while there are clearly bad unions and also terrible employers. I don't think either are the majority.

Right, I'll have another go.

Unions probably are infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

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whiteknight Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8250 melbourne Gender:	Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays Reply #109 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 3:45am People have a right to belong to a union. Who could forget the Howard government and their work choices?. ( No choices )
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Jasin

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #110 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 6:26am

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers.

Here in Australia Unions are destructive and stop business growth.
Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive.

Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase.

In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free.

I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

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aquascoot

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #111 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 7:12am

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 6:26am:

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers.

Here in Australia Unions are destructive and
stop business growth.
Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive.

Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase.

In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free.

I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

Good post Jason

The funny thing is that the Union's supported Trump
They now see the Left as the party Propped up bye big corporations

None bigger than Amazon
Bozos Purchased the Washington Post to support the democrats
Because they were helping him keep the unions out of Amazon
The biggest employer in the United States

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #112 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 8:42am

aquascoot wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 7:12am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 6:26am:

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers.

Here in Australia Unions are destructive and
stop business growth.
Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive.

Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase.

In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free.

I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

Good post Jason

The funny thing is that the Union's supported Trump
They now see the Left as the party Propped up bye big corporations

None bigger than Amazon
Bozos Purchased the Washington Post to support the democrats
Because they were helping him keep the unions out of Amazon
The biggest employer in the United States

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez told Amazon’s first unionized workers in New York on Sunday that their victory was “the first domino to fall” in what she expected to be a wave of similar votes for representation across the country.

The leftwing Democrat joined Vermont senator Bernie Sanders on stage in Staten Island to celebrate the historic achievement and to call for workers in more Amazon facilities in the US to follow their example.

“What happened out here … what you guys did in Staten Island was just the beginning. It was the first domino to fall,” she said, noting that workers at a second Amazon sorting facility in the New York borough were voting on Monday.

“We have another election tomorrow, and we’re going to support them in that. And the day after that, and the day after that, all the way. But what we need Amazon to do first and foremost is to recognize the union that won their election.”

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Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 29770 Gender:	Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays Reply #113 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:32am Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm: Maybe we should all work directly for the Union? I'm sure they'll pay a motza. Another stupid statement.
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Gnads

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #114 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:34am

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Bollocks - What sort of groups?

The membership is the "Union".

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Gnads

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #115 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:37am

Jasin wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 6:26am:

Unions are great and needed in the USA where wages are very low for workers.

Here in Australia Unions are destructive and stop business growth.
Australian Unionism is evil and exploitive.

Bus drivers go on strike at peak periods for pay rise. 3 months later, consumers pay for it with fare increase.

In Japan, when workers go on strike, they let consumers travel for free.

I like the movie Shackleton. He puts the two Unionists in their place and back to work.

Complete bollocks.

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Leroy

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #116 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:44am

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:34am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Bollocks - What sort of groups?

The membership is the "Union".

Quote:

A report into the alleged infiltration of the CFMEU by bikie gangs has found the construction union's efforts to rid itself of criminal elements were "inadequate".

The union's construction arm was placed into administration in August following allegations outlaw motorcycle gangs had infiltrated its branches, with bikies allegedly appointed as delegates on major projects, amid wider claims of bullying, intimidation and corrupt conduct.

A report commissioned by CFMEU leadership and carried out by respected barrister Geoffrey Watson SC has found bikies were still influential within the union and that EBA negotiations had become "vulnerable to corruption".

Thats all I'm going to say.

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Gnads

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #117 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:45am

There is no such thing as "The Union".

There are many Unions - each Union has a name

and they represent people in varying trades and in various specific occupations ...

then there are Unions that represent multiple work disciplines e.g. the Australian Workers Union. AWU.

The generalisation by the use of the term "the Union" .. and tarring them all with the same brush based on the actions of militant Unions like the CMFEU is the refuge of the lazy & deceitful.

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Gnads

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #118 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:47am

Leroy wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:44am:

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:34am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:47pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 9:20pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 30^th, 2024 at 8:10pm:

Maybe we should all work directly for the Union?
I'm sure they'll pay a motza.

Most UNIONS push for a fair and reasonable wage. They understand that the company needs to be competitive and profitable to continue to pay wages.

Unions can be infiltrated by groups due to their membership, voting gets manipulated.

Bollocks - What sort of groups?

The membership is the "Union".

Quote:

A report into the alleged infiltration of the CFMEU by bikie gangs has found the construction union's efforts to rid itself of criminal elements were "inadequate".

The union's construction arm was placed into administration in August following allegations outlaw motorcycle gangs had infiltrated its branches, with bikies allegedly appointed as delegates on major projects, amid wider claims of bullying, intimidation and corrupt conduct.

A report commissioned by CFMEU leadership and carried out by respected barrister Geoffrey Watson SC has found bikies were still influential within the union and that EBA negotiations had become "vulnerable to corruption".

Thats all I'm going to say.

You shouldn't have even said that ....it's absolute bollocks that you should go straight for the CFMEU - the most militant & a huge exception to the rule in which most Unions operate.

It's all Union bashers can do.

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Leroy

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #119 - Dec 31^st, 2024 at 10:08am

Gnads wrote on Dec 31^st, 2024 at 9:45am:

There is no such thing as "The Union".

There are many Unions - each Union has a name

and they represent people in varying trades and in various specific occupations ...

then there are Unions that represent multiple work disciplines e.g. the Australian Workers Union. AWU.

The generalisation by the use of the term "the Union" .. and tarring them all with the same brush based on the actions of militant Unions like the CMFEU is the refuge of the lazy & deceitful.

Thats your take, mine would be unions have a place but just like any organization they are going to become political and politics will overtake commonsense every time. I was a member of the FEDFA in the 80's and has dealings with the ETU, AWU.
ETU had the power and could stop any site from working. If we wanted anything then first we had to get the ETU to agree. This usually gave the ETU an opening to include what they wanted, companies knew that when bargaining it was wise to stack it in the ETU's favor to get a quicker result. I've been on strike to get what we wanted and not what we went on strike for. We could shut down the place for weeks and our members would be OK with that (we would get several months notice to save up), time for some fishing or camping so we generally did very well when bargaining. The AWU had too many members who lived week to week and could not afford to go on strike so they had far less bargaining power.

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