Australian Politics Forum - Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays

Leroy

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #30 - Dec 28^th, 2024 at 8:35pm

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 8:24pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 1:58pm:

This guys restaurant is in Camberwell it is a very small cafe open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's..

That’s interesting. I wonder if his actually making more money than his business via his cafe owner influencer website?

What happens when you close on public holidays and your staff seek employment with a business that opens and therefore their wages improved.

Does this leave the duds working for business that can’t afford to pay for the busiest days?

What is your opinion on paying as a customer Sunday and public holiday surcharges?
Even if the venue is clearly doing a roaring trade on the day?

Edit- I dislike to ask a question without putting imo forward first.
I have no issue with it, I simply don’t tip.

Some very good workers prefer to have public holidays off, also good workers tend to get better wages due to good work practices. They don't have to chase better wages businesses chase them.

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Gnads

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #31 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:04am

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 11:52am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:38am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:21am:

"Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred.

so don't open. It's not that difficult.

How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing.

No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour?

This is the myth promoted by the unions - that they, rather than market forces, are the real drivers of salary.

Quote:

So they have no one to look after their best interests.

Are you saying they are incapable of thinking for themselves?

Quote:

then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant

The thing about being a shop assistant is, the skills are easily transferable to a large number of alternative employers.

It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour.

It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unp...

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Gnads

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #32 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:11am

Jasin wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 3:57pm:

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 8:31pm:

whiteknight wrote on Dec 27^th, 2024 at 6:43am:

The good people of Australia love their public holidays. People that work them should get the penalty rates.

I’d like to expand on this thought.

Sunday penalty rates came too be as a result of people having to work on the day of Christian god call to rest.
So if you aren’t at church every Sunday you should be at work without penalty rates?

Not a Christian? Don’t believe in Jesus? Off to work you go every 25th December without any penalty rates.

Good bye Easter break oh non believer. You work and earn standard hourly rate.

Australian day!
Not a citizen? Work no penalty rates.
You object to the invasion of Australia by the British, don’t be a hypocrite. Work standard pay rate.

So your in favour of a republic and happy to celebrate the king’s birthday at work on normal pay!

Labor Day? Not in a union get in line and too your job, no penalty rates.

Well said Dave.

I've always said that those 'celebrity' Media pushing Republicans here who pipe up against Monarchists (not that the Monarchy, as Masters of Ceremony, have anything to do with Politics compared to the 'British' side) and Great Britain on the Flag...
...should be working without Penalty Rates on the Queen's or King's Birthday Public Holiday.

It's really just Unionism money grubbing at the cost of the Consumer Public. Everything the Union does for 'the worker' is on the backs of the Consumer/Public paying for it.

The thing about Union Workers is that you know they're in it for the money.
Great Employers know how to keep their best Staff without them needing parasitic Unionism cashing in between them.
It's no different to Employment Agency middle-men taking their cut from Employers for their 'hired' employees.

Personally, I've always told my new Employer (if I like them) that I'm not in the Union, but I am a Confederate. Which they like and laugh.

How can you tell a worker is a Yankee Unionist?
He takes 'da money' while the Confederate Worker is shagging his wife. Grin

I mean - when you're a 'worker', you're not 'rich'. Wink

So why be in the Union and think that you are. Grin

You're usual scab tainted BS logic.

Take what is union won & don't contribute - and stab another worker in the back to get his job.

No worker in a Union thinks that they are rich.

You still can't answer why bosses belong to business associations that are Unions? - Unions of Employers.

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Leroy

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #33 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:29am

Gnads wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour.

It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unp...

China is structuring itself to move away from Australian iron ore, this will happen in the next decade.

Quote:

Mrs Rinehart says Australians should not be complacent about the investment pipeline given that African labourers will work for less than $2 a day.

"Business as usual will not do, not when West African competitors can offer our biggest customers an average capital cost for a tonne of iron ore that's $100 under the price offered by an emerging producer in the Pilbara," she said.

"Furthermore, Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country's future."

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freediver

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #34 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:10am

Gnads wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 9:04am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 11:52am:

Leroy wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:56am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:48am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:38am:

freediver wrote on Dec 28^th, 2024 at 10:21am:

"Spreading the costs" does not make sense. They are not a charity. They are not there out of some sense of duty to serve you on a public holiday. I am sure the owners would rather keep whatever profits they make on other days. This is not less silly than asking the employees to donate part of their salary to cover the losses incurred.

so don't open. It's not that difficult.

How would you feel if the government placed arbitrary restrictions on your business that prevented you from working?

They have, I would have 250 people working for me but arbitrary restrictions on my business means it would not be profitable because I would have to pay them more than I would make. If I could pay $2 an hour I would make a killing.

No you wouldn't. Who do you think would work for you for $2 per hour?

This is the myth promoted by the unions - that they, rather than market forces, are the real drivers of salary.

Quote:

So they have no one to look after their best interests.

Are you saying they are incapable of thinking for themselves?

Quote:

then they surely wouldn't be working as a shop assistant

The thing about being a shop assistant is, the skills are easily transferable to a large number of alternative employers.

It's not a myth - and it wasn't $2 per hour.

It was $2 per day .... quoted by Gina Rinehart in 2012.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unp...

And?

Are you going to take those African countries to court because you think they are underpaying their staff?

She speaks the truth. Though it is more about China at the moment. Lifting a billion Chinese people out of poverty has stagnated wages for the western middle class. And you cannot legislate against it. Why do you think we don't make cars here any more? But we can make a half decent latte.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48641 Gender:	Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays Reply #35 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:39am I remember when holidays meant everyone was on holiday, not working.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Carl D

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #36 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:57am

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:39am:

I remember when holidays meant everyone was on holiday, not working.

I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning.

Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday.

At least here in Perth they did. And, if you needed petrol there were only a few 'roster' stations open on the weekend... and they only sold petrol, not "everything but the kitchen sink" like they do today.

And no big suburban shopping centres like today, most people did their shopping in the city.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure hot cross buns for Easter didn't appear in the shops the day after Boxing Day (like they have again this year).

And Boxing Day sales didn't start a week before December 26th and were still going on until at least the week after Boxing Day.

How did we ever manage to survive back in those days 50-60 years ago?

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48641 Gender:	Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays Reply #37 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 11:02am I know Carl. The mind boggles. It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Dnarever

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #38 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:07pm

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

I know Carl. The mind boggles.
It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.

The Cafe the guy complaining in the article pays no penalty rates. His small cafe is open Monday to Friday - closed Sat Sun and PH's.

Remind me again what he is complaining about ? Is it a pay rate he doesn't have to pay ?

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 48641 Gender:	Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays Reply #39 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:42pm 3rd paragraph of OP ...which many businesses say don't cover the wages
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Daves2017

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #40 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:44pm

Carl D wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:57am:

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 10:39am:

I remember when holidays meant everyone was on holiday, not working.

I remember when most shops in the city closed at 12 noon Saturday and didn't open again until Monday morning.

Closed until Tuesday morning if it was a long weekend with a Monday holiday.

At least here in Perth they did. And, if you needed petrol there were only a few 'roster' stations open on the weekend... and they only sold petrol, not "everything but the kitchen sink" like they do today.

And no big suburban shopping centres like today, most people did their shopping in the city.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure hot cross buns for Easter didn't appear in the shops the day after Boxing Day (like they have again this year).

And Boxing Day sales didn't start a week before December 26th and were still going on until at least the week after Boxing Day.

How did we ever manage to survive back in those days 50-60 years ago?

I remember being told stories of French cities closing at midday Saturday. Petrol stations closed but petrol could be purchased by putting coins in the pump, until it was widely known a correct sized metal washer work as well .
Sunday was a day of rest and church.
It was acceptable the hospital , fire and police worked.

No shop dared open!
It would be broke by end of weeks as the citizens would boycott it completely out of disgust!

I’m unsure but families and community seemed to mean much more than money I suspect back than?

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Daves2017

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #41 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:54pm

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

I know Carl. The mind boggles.
It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.

Petrol is a thread on its own.

This cafe owner is confusing.
I still suspect his cafe is just a blogger running the cafe on the side?
Perhaps he doesn’t even have staff?

I do not know.

I do know it’s been a terrible time in hospitality industry and for small business in general.
We really need solutions otherwise we will have a country who’s only employment is working in or for government.
That’s a house of cards waiting to collapse.

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Dnarever

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #42 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:56pm

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:42pm:

3rd paragraph of OP
...which many businesses say don't cover the wages

Yes then the commercial decision is to not open as there is insufficient demand to open. If their service was needed by the community then it would be profitable.

I managed a cafe / take away shop in a tourist area. The public holiday turnover would be many hundred percent greater than for an average day. there was a strong comercial case to be open and to pay penalty rates easily. It is a case by case decision. A smart business will be fluid on the day. An example would be a rainy PH where the crowd doesn't turn up. Of 8 staff 4/5 would likely work minimum hours and go home.

Never seen this business make a loss on a PH. there would be businesses that could not possibly make a PH profit, they have no place in opening. Wages are most likely not the problem they would not be viable on flat wages. Many businesses cannot open on weekends. This is mostly a demand issue not a wages one.

A business managements ineptitude is never the fault of the employees. This guys cafe seems to have a demand issue, on Weekends he doesn't have the mon to friday business trade in his business location. There is always insufficient passing trade to support his business. This isn't penalty rates driven it is demand for his service driven.

An example would be a cafe in an industrial park which would have no PH demand, there is nobody there to buy anything.

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« Last Edit: Dec 29^th, 2024 at 3:07pm by Dnarever »

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Dnarever

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Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays
Reply #43 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 3:04pm

Daves2017 wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 2:54pm:

Jasin wrote on Dec 29^th, 2024 at 11:02am:

I know Carl. The mind boggles.
It's a scam. If businesses couldn't afford penalty rates, they wouldn't open. But they can and use it as an excuse to charge excessively with price rises and surcharges. Petrol went up 10c this past week.

Petrol is a thread on its own.

This cafe owner is confusing.
I still suspect his cafe is just a blogger running the cafe on the side?
Perhaps he doesn’t even have staff?

I do not know.

I do know it’s been a terrible time in hospitality industry and for small business in general.
We really need solutions otherwise we will have a country who’s only employment is working in or for government.
That’s a house of cards waiting to collapse.

Quote:

I still suspect his cafe is just a blogger running the cafe on the side?

He has at least 2 businesses one is the cafe and possible a chain of them, the second is a coffee distribution, He does specialist coffees.

Nigel's Cafe (his web page includes opening hours mon to fri)

https://camberwellshopping.com.au/trader/nigel/

Born and raised coffee. (WebSite closed for Holidays)

https://bornandraised.coffee/

He is also prolific in the media and has clips on youtube

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« Last Edit: Dec 29^th, 2024 at 3:10pm by Dnarever »

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Daves2017 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1039 Gender:	Re: Cafe Owner Frustration At Public Holidays Reply #44 - Dec 29^th, 2024 at 4:30pm Dnarever Thank you, I’ll explore his blogging. His obviously committed too the industry with three connected businesses so I expect very worth reading.
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