Australian Politics Forum - Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war

aquascoot

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #105 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:17pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:06pm:

So you say Trump will save us from WW3, then you complain that Biden took actions to support Ukraine in a deliberate way to avoid WW3...

You're on fire today Bobbi...

No - I'm saying that Zelensky should never have accepted the piss poor help
that led to half a million of his people killed and many cities demolished.

He should have surrendered 3 years ago to save all those lives and the cities.
Why fight a war that destroys your nation?
He had so called guarantees from agreements with Europe and the USA
about protecting Ukraine in case of invasion and they reneged on the deals.

pretty much

donald will have it all over soon

he will say to zelensky

zelensky, i want 1/2 a trillion in resources from you and you have to give up the donbas.

if you dont, no more weapons for you.

he will say to vlad

putin, you get the donbas , now f off back to your dasha and get with some supermodels .

the killing stops
ukraine and russia can live in peace
trump out frames china and secures rare earth minerals

this is called constructing the win/win/win.

something the looney left could never do because they dont understnd the win/win, much less the win/win/win

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #106 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:11pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:17pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:06pm:

So you say Trump will save us from WW3, then you complain that Biden took actions to support Ukraine in a deliberate way to avoid WW3...

You're on fire today Bobbi...

No - I'm saying that Zelensky should never have accepted the piss poor help
that led to half a million of his people killed and many cities demolished.

He should have surrendered 3 years ago to save all those lives and the cities.
Why fight a war that destroys your nation?
He had so called guarantees from agreements with Europe and the USA
about protecting Ukraine in case of invasion and they reneged on the deals.

pretty much

donald will have it all over soon

he will say to zelensky

zelensky, i want 1/2 a trillion in resources from you and you have to give up the donbas.

if you dont, no more weapons for you.

he will say to vlad

putin, you get the donbas , now f off back to your dasha and get with some supermodels .

the killing stops
ukraine and russia can live in peace
trump out frames china and secures rare earth minerals

this is called constructing the win/win/win.

something the looney left could never do because they dont understnd the win/win, much less the win/win/win

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Frank

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #107 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:25pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:02pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:59pm:

Its in the Australian National Archives.

that was a deal with the soviet union ... they no longer exist

In the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, the United States, Russia, and Britain committed “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country. Those assurances played a key role in persuading the Ukrainian government in Kyiv to give up what amounted to the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal, consisting of some 1,900 strategic nuclear warheads.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memor...

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Leroy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1925 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #108 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am: It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump. What an odd crossover. It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.
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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #109 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:50pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

You hate Putin? You have a funny way of showing it...

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #110 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:59pm

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:50pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

You hate Putin? You have a funny way of showing it...

By looking at everything that has happened means I support Putin.

If I dont hate Trump then I must support Putin is that how you see everything.

This is typical leftie strategy, I've said nothing to support Putin, I don't agree with him but you think because I don't hate Trump then I must be supporting Putin.

You are more interested in finding fault with Trump than the welfare of the Ukrainian people.

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Karnal

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #111 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 3:19pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:17pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:06pm:

So you say Trump will save us from WW3, then you complain that Biden took actions to support Ukraine in a deliberate way to avoid WW3...

You're on fire today Bobbi...

No - I'm saying that Zelensky should never have accepted the piss poor help
that led to half a million of his people killed and many cities demolished.

He should have surrendered 3 years ago to save all those lives and the cities.
Why fight a war that destroys your nation?
He had so called guarantees from agreements with Europe and the USA
about protecting Ukraine in case of invasion and they reneged on the deals.

Sorry, who reneged on the security deal, Bobby?

We'll need names, dear.

Vlad's invasion of Ukraine was a test-run for WWIII. If Zalensky had surrended, Vlad would have seized a land army with a good two million troops. Poland would have been first on Vlad's list, drawing in NATO.

Xi would have taken Taiwan. The CCP would now control the South China Sea and South Pacific, including all sea trade routes, vital for Australian supply lines.

So if I was you, I'd be praising Zalensky for his bravery. Not only did he reject Boris Johnson's offer of safe haven, Zalensky stayed put and rallied the world behind a global cause - our peaceful, rules-based post-WWII order.

If we lose this, the dominoes fall and we're in WWIII. Your DL is now the only Western world leader threatening to let it rip. This isn't speculative or hypothetical, it's a fact.

So now we all know where we stand, I'm curious: who's side are you on?

That's a question. If you don't want to answer, just say why.

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Karnal

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #112 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 3:59pm

aquascoot wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:11pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:17pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 1:06pm:

So you say Trump will save us from WW3, then you complain that Biden took actions to support Ukraine in a deliberate way to avoid WW3...

You're on fire today Bobbi...

No - I'm saying that Zelensky should never have accepted the piss poor help
that led to half a million of his people killed and many cities demolished.

He should have surrendered 3 years ago to save all those lives and the cities.
Why fight a war that destroys your nation?
He had so called guarantees from agreements with Europe and the USA
about protecting Ukraine in case of invasion and they reneged on the deals.

pretty much

donald will have it all over soon

he will say to zelensky

zelensky, i want 1/2 a trillion in resources from you and you have to give up the donbas.

if you dont, no more weapons for you.

he will say to vlad

putin, you get the donbas , now f off back to your dasha and get with some supermodels .

the killing stops
ukraine and russia can live in peace
trump out frames china and secures rare earth minerals

this is called constructing the win/win/win.

something the looney left could never do because they dont understnd the win/win, much less the win/win/win

That's nice. How do you propose Ukraine and Russia live in peace?

Get Vlad to sign another agreement?

We look forward to your considered reply.

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Frank

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #113 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 4:07pm

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:50pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

You hate Putin? You have a funny way of showing it...

What's the korrekt way?

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Karnal

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #114 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 4:48pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

Sure is, Leroy. Here you are saying the Ukrainian prez should go away and leave the future of his country in the hands of two foreign powers.

Look, I'm sure Donny and Vlad want to do the right thing. They've been straight with us right from the start.

And no, Vlad never intended to hurt anyone. He was just having a bit of fun with the invasion thing - sorry, security operation. Vlad's a peacemaker, right?

As Donny said, Zalensky never should have started all this by not giving in. That was just rude. And why can't Zalensky have an election?

Vlad has them all the time, no? Donny just had one. Wasn't it a landslide?

Don's just the sort of guy you'd want in as umpire. He can sit down with Vlad, talk turkey, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, smile for the fake news, shake and it's done.

Problem solved, right? I mean, if you can't look after your borders, you may as well not even have a country anymore. The leftards don't take too kindly to that, now do they?

SEND THEM BACK !!!

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12002 Armidale Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #115 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 4:54pm Trump at least has not reneged on his deal. He said he would wreck the US Constitution, NATO, EU, Ukraine and free trade. Also truth would fall by the way. Donald and Vladimir.
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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #116 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 5:17pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:59pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:50pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

You hate Putin? You have a funny way of showing it...

By looking at everything that has happened means I support Putin.

If I dont hate Trump then I must support Putin is that how you see everything.

This is typical leftie strategy, I've said nothing to support Putin, I don't agree with him but you think because I don't hate Trump then I must be supporting Putin.

You are more interested in finding fault with Trump than the welfare of the Ukrainian people.

Your solution to the war in Ukraine is to let Putin win.

That was done for Crimea and at the time, Putin stated that Russia had "no plans to divide Ukraine further" and that the annexation of Crimea was a "unique case."

Yet it happened again.

It won't stop.

And you want to hand him the territory he's already taken in what is apparently another "unique case"?

Giving in now is telling him you can have all of Ukraine, the west doesn't care.

When your solution to ending the war is to give Putin exactly what he wants, it really seems like you don't hate him... You're simply using "saving lives" as an excuse to support Putin by stealth, because in the long run, more lives will be lost the next time, the time after that, when will it end?

And of course, it allows you to fall into like with the Trump and MAGA rhetoric.

What's to stop Putin restarting hostilities, again, in another few years, in another "unique case", maybe when Trump has succeeded in weakening the US even further?

It's just an odd claim to make that you hate Putin when you seem to be advocating for the solutions that are in his and Russia's best interests.

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #117 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 6:20pm

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 5:17pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:59pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:50pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

You hate Putin? You have a funny way of showing it...

By looking at everything that has happened means I support Putin.

If I dont hate Trump then I must support Putin is that how you see everything.

This is typical leftie strategy, I've said nothing to support Putin, I don't agree with him but you think because I don't hate Trump then I must be supporting Putin.

You are more interested in finding fault with Trump than the welfare of the Ukrainian people.

Your solution to the war in Ukraine is to let Putin win.

That was done for Crimea and at the time, Putin stated that Russia had "no plans to divide Ukraine further" and that the annexation of Crimea was a "unique case."

Yet it happened again.

It won't stop.

And you want to hand him the territory he's already taken in what is apparently another "unique case"?

Giving in now is telling him you can have all of Ukraine, the west doesn't care.

When your solution to ending the war is to give Putin exactly what he wants, it really seems like you don't hate him... You're simply using "saving lives" as an excuse to support Putin by stealth, because in the long run, more lives will be lost the next time, the time after that, when will it end?

And of course, it allows you to fall into like with the Trump and MAGA rhetoric.

What's to stop Putin restarting hostilities, again, in another few years, in another "unique case", maybe when Trump has succeeded in weakening the US even further?

It's just an odd claim to make that you hate Putin when you seem to be advocating for the solutions that are in his and Russia's best interests.

I don't want anything, I would just like the killing to stop. How it ends up is where it will end up, I'm not trying to push it in any direction.

There were warnings as far back as 1997 that if NATO makes moves on Ukraine, that includes Zelensky's public speeches about joining NATO will bring about a disaster.

These warnings have been ignored and the campaign for Ukraine to join NATO grew louder and supported by some members of NATO.

You can't ignore one side of the story. I'm not supporting Putin but we can't ignore him like they have for the first three years of the war. I don't recall any attempts from Biden Harris to seek peace with Putin.

Putin may a evil person but he still effects other countries and we have a better chance of peace if we are at least on talking terms. Remember Russia wanted to join NATO but America vetoed it. Had they not vetoed it Europe might be in a better place now.

But hating on Putin or worrying about who won what is not priority for me, I'm just an advocate for stopping the killing.

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #118 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 6:21pm

Karnal wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 4:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 2:26pm:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am:

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

It is odd isn't it, we hate Putin and you hate Trump.

Sure is, Leroy. Here you are saying the Ukrainian prez should go away and leave the future of his country in the hands of two foreign powers.

Look, I'm sure Donny and Vlad want to do the right thing. They've been straight with us right from the start.

And no, Vlad never intended to hurt anyone. He was just having a bit of fun with the invasion thing - sorry, security operation. Vlad's a peacemaker, right?

As Donny said, Zalensky never should have started all this by not giving in. That was just rude. And why can't Zalensky have an election?

Vlad has them all the time, no? Donny just had one. Wasn't it a landslide?

Don's just the sort of guy you'd want in as umpire. He can sit down with Vlad, talk turkey, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, smile for the fake news, shake and it's done.

Problem solved, right? I mean, if you can't look after your borders, you may as well not even have a country anymore. The leftards don't take too kindly to that, now do they?

SEND THEM BACK !!!

Thanks for your valuable contribution.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59355 Here Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #119 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 9:38pm Recent polls say that about 8% of voters support how Trump is handling Ukraine, Around 80% don't support Trump on this.
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