Australian Politics Forum - Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war

Bobby.

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #15 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:21pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:17pm:

Not only did Trump claim Ukraine started the war the US is also blackmailing Ukraine into signing over critical resources for their support....Ukraine will never accept the terms of the deal so what then....Trump will end the war and Ukraine???

Huh

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ukraine-press-accuses-us-officials-of-black...

Ummmm?

Trump said -

The American President, speaking to reporters at his Florida resort, Mar-a-Lago, laid the blame for the war at Ukraine’s feet, arguing that its President Volodymyr Zelensky should have given Russia chunks of his country’s territory in an effort to stave off the invasion.

“I think I have the power to end this war, and I think it’s going very well. But today I heard, ‘Oh we weren’t invited.’ Well you’ve been there for three years,” Mr Trump said.

“You should have ended it three years (ago). You should have never started it. You could have made a deal,” he added.

“I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land. And no people would have been killed. No city would have been demolished. Not one home would have been knocked down.

“But they chose not to do it that way.”

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139596 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #16 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:22pm Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:11pm: It's weird logic - it appears to be victim blaming? A mixture of dementia and sucking Putin's balls.
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106977 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #17 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators? Does he remember Neville Chamberlain?
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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #18 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:26pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:08pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 12:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 12:25pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 11:51am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 11:41am:

Yeah, now you're just being a troll. You do realise that real people are dying, right? I know of a Ukrainian family living in my town right now while the father/husband fights the Russians back in Ukraine. They don't know if they'll return home one day to him being alive or dead, and it's all because of a murderous lunatic called Putin.

OK then you tell me how this war should end and how they will achieve that.

What is your priority here is it to stop the killings or is it to recover land?.

First and foremost, Ukraine MUST be involved in any negotiations regarding the cessation of hostilities. Why? Because they're the ones who have to live with whatever the agreement may be, not Trump or his MAGA cult members. The people of Ukraine don't care what Trumps' poll numbers are or will be. Ukraine did not start this war - they are the victims, not Putin. They just want to live in peace. Ukraine must be granted NATO membership, so that this can never happen again. There will need to be an European-led international peace keeping force for some years to ensure Russia stays out of Ukraine and doesn't attempt to invade any neighbouring countries.

So what is the priority here.

If Ukraine are going to join NATO then Putin is going to keep fighting.

If NATO put a peace keeping force in Ukraine then they will also keep the war going.

Russia is going to stop NATO from having any military influence in Ukraine, they will not negotiate on that matter.

Whats more important here, get NATO into Ukraine (prepare for the consequences of that) or to stop Ukrainians from being killed.

Why do you support Russia? Huh

Wanting to see an end to the killings is supporting Russia, then why are you not supporting Russia to stop the killings.

Why do you want more people killed?.

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #19 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm:

So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators?

Does he remember Neville Chamberlain?

You have two choices, stop the killing or continue with the killing, you may want to let people die over a piece of land in the Ukraine but its not you thats going to the war zone and getting killed.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75191 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #20 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:32pm I'm betting that next week putin will go on russian tv to announce a new resort to be built on what was Ukrainian territory. With the orange oompa loompa nodding in the background
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Bobby.

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #21 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:32pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm:

So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators?

Does he remember Neville Chamberlain?

You have two choices, stop the killing or continue with the killing, you may want to let people die over a piece of land in the Ukraine but its not you thats going to the war zone and getting killed.

But it's a bit like Neville isn't it?

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John Smith

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #22 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:33pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm:

So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators?

Does he remember Neville Chamberlain?

You have two choices, stop the killing or continue with the killing, you may want to let people die over a piece of land in the Ukraine but its not you thats going to the war zone and getting killed.

why is russia not withdrawing a choice? Why are you so eager to appease a bully? Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #23 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:33pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm:

So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators?

Does he remember Neville Chamberlain?

You have two choices, stop the killing or continue with the killing, you may want to let people die over a piece of land in the Ukraine but its not you thats going to the war zone and getting killed.

why is russia not withdrawing a choice? Why are you so eager to appease a bully? Cheesy

Because he has the upper hand, I don't want to appease Putin, I would prefer to see him dead. But he has the choice of withdrawing but is not going to utilize that option. I can't make him withdraw. So unless Ukraine can make him withdraw I don't think he will and I don't think Ukraine can make him.

Zelensky can negotiate a end to the war, I know it won't be on terms he likes but as I said before what is the priority here, lives or land. If it is land then you don't have to pay attention to Trump and continue with the war, Trump can't make Zelensky do anything he can only try to stop the killing. He can't make Russia do what Zelensky wants.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75191 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #24 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm: Because he has the upper hand, bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 139596 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #25 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:59pm Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm: So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators? Of course, and he wants to get in on the action. Canada, Greenland, Panama Canal, etc.
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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #26 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #27 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:11pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

you got him there Cheesy

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tickleandrose

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #28 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:11pm

I feel sorry for people of Ukraine, they are the biggest losers in all of this.

It is the UK and USA that opened the door for Ukraine to join NATO, despite Russian warning them not to cross this red line. (see my very early posts at the start of the war for details). In the eve of the invasion, Boris Johnson, the then UK prime minister flew to Ukraine with full backing of the Western world. And the rest is history.

Now, Biden is gone, Johnson is long gone.

Within one US election, suddenly, its the Ukrainian is at fault for starting the war! And now, the US and Russia is dividing up the country without Ukraine or European representation. The US wanted the vast rare earth mineral reserve (50%), and it also now has control of Ukrainian infrastructure like utilities. The Russians is going to get vast amount of Ukrainian land and people.

And above all, how can any country - including Russia be sure if the peace deal will be honoured? If someone else gets elected in 4 years time, will he/she do a back flip once again?

We are entering an era of uncertainty. Buckle up boys.

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tickleandrose

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #29 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:13pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

Its being accounted for. Another election means he will be ousted one way or another. Or.. he run the risk of ... falling from a window... in a windowless building.

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