Australian Politics Forum - Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war

Bobby.

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #30 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:41pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

Scott Ritter says that Zelensky is a druggie:

"Zelensky is a DRUGGED out mess and he is finished" Fmr. US Marine Scott Ritter | Redacted News

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #31 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:55pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:41pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

Scott Ritter says that Zelensky is a druggie:

"Zelensky is a DRUGGED out mess and he is finished" Fmr. US Marine Scott Ritter | Redacted News

Where do you find these lunatics, Bobbi?

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Karnal

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #32 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:07pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 9:27am:

Once again, Trump shows what a colossal ignoramus he really is. He is blaming Ukraine for starting the war with Russia and says Ukraine never should have started it. Just what alternate reality is this moron living in? Is he serious? I have never heard something so monumentally stupid come out of his mouth, and that's saying something because hardly a day goes by without him saying something so stupid it beggars belief! He then goes on with some ridiculous fantasy where he claims he could have made a deal (what is with him and deals?) that would have seen Ukraine keep "almost" all of their land. I never thought Trump possessed even below average intelligence, but his latest comments just serve to prove he lacks any intelligence whatsoever! I don't know if he has dementia or some genuine mental illness, but no one in their right mind could ever claim that Ukraine started this war with Russia. Why would they? It would be like New Zealand declaring war on China. I honestly think Trump needs to be relieved of his presidency as he is clear mentally unfit to hold that office.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ukraine-press-accuses-us-officials-of-black...

Now now, Armchair, that's unfair. None of this would have happened if Zalensky had just quietly surrendered, as he was asked to do.

Of course, Sleepy Joe bears some responsibility too. The stupid old fool should have kept America and Europe out of it, it's none of their business.

DEEP STATE !!!

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Karnal

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #33 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:11pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:59pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:23pm:

So Trump believes in appeasement to dictators?

Of course, and he wants to get in on the action.

Canada, Greenland, Panama Canal, etc.

The same goes for them, Greggery. They have no right to complain.

They should be grateful DL wants to invite them into the USA and leave it at that.

Why must the left lie?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #34 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:23pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:26pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:08pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 12:31pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 12:25pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 11:51am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 11:41am:

Yeah, now you're just being a troll. You do realise that real people are dying, right? I know of a Ukrainian family living in my town right now while the father/husband fights the Russians back in Ukraine. They don't know if they'll return home one day to him being alive or dead, and it's all because of a murderous lunatic called Putin.

OK then you tell me how this war should end and how they will achieve that.

What is your priority here is it to stop the killings or is it to recover land?.

First and foremost, Ukraine MUST be involved in any negotiations regarding the cessation of hostilities. Why? Because they're the ones who have to live with whatever the agreement may be, not Trump or his MAGA cult members. The people of Ukraine don't care what Trumps' poll numbers are or will be. Ukraine did not start this war - they are the victims, not Putin. They just want to live in peace. Ukraine must be granted NATO membership, so that this can never happen again. There will need to be an European-led international peace keeping force for some years to ensure Russia stays out of Ukraine and doesn't attempt to invade any neighbouring countries.

So what is the priority here.

If Ukraine are going to join NATO then Putin is going to keep fighting.

If NATO put a peace keeping force in Ukraine then they will also keep the war going.

Russia is going to stop NATO from having any military influence in Ukraine, they will not negotiate on that matter.

Whats more important here, get NATO into Ukraine (prepare for the consequences of that) or to stop Ukrainians from being killed.

Why do you support Russia? Huh

Wanting to see an end to the killings is supporting Russia, then why are you not supporting Russia to stop the killings.

Why do you want more people killed?.

I support the right of Ukraine to defend itself against an illegal and unjustified Russian invasion. I support Ukraine in its fight against Russian war crimes. Why do you continue to support Russia, the aggressor?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #35 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:27pm

tickleandrose wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:11pm:

I feel sorry for people of Ukraine, they are the biggest losers in all of this.

It is the UK and USA that opened the door for Ukraine to join NATO, despite Russian warning them not to cross this red line. (see my very early posts at the start of the war for details). In the eve of the invasion, Boris Johnson, the then UK prime minister flew to Ukraine with full backing of the Western world. And the rest is history.

Now, Biden is gone, Johnson is long gone.

Within one US election, suddenly, its the Ukrainian is at fault for starting the war! And now, the US and Russia is dividing up the country without Ukraine or European representation. The US wanted the vast rare earth mineral reserve (50%), and it also now has control of Ukrainian infrastructure like utilities. The Russians is going to get vast amount of Ukrainian land and people.

And above all, how can any country - including Russia be sure if the peace deal will be honoured? If someone else gets elected in 4 years time, will he/she do a back flip once again?

We are entering an era of uncertainty. Buckle up boys.

The possibility of NATO membership only came about after Russia illegally annexed Crimea in their first invasion of Ukraine. Too many people seem to forget that NATO is a defensive organisation only. Its charter specifically says this.

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106977 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #36 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:46pm My thoughts are that the whole problem should have been sorted out by the United Nations over 3 years ago. Did Putin try to get the UN to solve it? He had many meetings with Macron but I don't remember anything happening at the UN.
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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #37 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:55pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:23pm:

I support the right of Ukraine to defend itself against an illegal and unjustified Russian invasion. I support Ukraine in its fight against Russian war crimes. Why do you continue to support Russia, the aggressor?

My support won't help Ukraine or Russia, my only wish is that they stop killing people, you can prattle on all you like about who is to blame who should do what and abuse Trump all you like but you have nothing when it comes to how to handle the situation. If Zelensky wants to get a peace deal on his terms then I'm OK with that, but Putin also wants to get a deal under his terms. You just have to work out how many lives you are willing to sacrifice to achieve to that end.

The world is not fair, sometimes you just have to take what you can get and if you leave it too late you might get even less.

I'm puzzled as to why you want to see more people killed.

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chimera

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #38 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:07pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 9:27am:

he could have made a deal that would have seen Ukraine keep "almost" all of their land.

This is excellent. From here, Trump can donate 30% of US industrial production to China, 15% of land area to Venezuelan migrants and Canada gets California. Philippines, Taiwan easy. Hawaii is a beautiful Chinese water-front tourist development. MAGA.

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Jasin

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #39 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:10pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 9:27am:

Once again, Trump shows what a colossal ignoramus he really is. He is blaming Ukraine for starting the war with Russia and says Ukraine never should have started it. Just what alternate reality is this moron living in? Is he serious? I have never heard something so monumentally stupid come out of his mouth, and that's saying something because hardly a day goes by without him saying something so stupid it beggars belief! He then goes on with some ridiculous fantasy where he claims he could have made a deal (what is with him and deals?) that would have seen Ukraine keep "almost" all of their land. I never thought Trump possessed even below average intelligence, but his latest comments just serve to prove he lacks any intelligence whatsoever! I don't know if he has dementia or some genuine mental illness, but no one in their right mind could ever claim that Ukraine started this war with Russia. Why would they? It would be like New Zealand declaring war on China. I honestly think Trump needs to be relieved of his presidency as he is clear mentally unfit to hold that office.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ukraine-press-accuses-us-officials-of-black...

You're obviously not good at Poker and neither is Putin.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12002 Armidale Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #40 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:39pm Trump at card table 'Hey I've got some doozies, ace of diamonds and hearts and three duds. Here we go, Vlad'. Vlad ' (silent)' collects pile of chips.
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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #41 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:54pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 3:46pm:

My thoughts are that the whole problem should have been sorted out
by the United Nations over 3 years ago.
Did Putin try to get the UN to solve it?
He had many meetings with Macron but I don't remember anything
happening at the UN.

It's easy to regurgitate the party line, but how should it have been solved over the last 3 years?

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Leroy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1925 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #42 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:57pm KangAnon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:54pm: It's easy to regurgitate the party line, but how should it have been solved over the last 3 years? Your only interest in Ukraine is how much you can blame on Trump.
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 12002 Armidale Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #43 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 6:24pm KangAnon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:54pm: how should it have been solved over the last 3 years? how should it have been solved over the last 3 years?
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Leroy Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1925 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #44 - Feb 19^th, 2025 at 7:37pm chimera wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 6:24pm: KangAnon wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 4:54pm: how should it have been solved over the last 3 years? how should it have been solved over the last 3 years? How should it have been solved over the last 3 years?.
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