Australian Politics Forum - Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war

aquascoot

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #75 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:05pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 9:57am:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 9:41am:

So how many Ukrainians will die in this noble cause?.

so if someone threatens to kill you you're just going to walk out of your house and leave them your property? Cheesy

Grow some balls man

youre from italy arent you john?

how did you go in the desert in 1941?

australian troops report getting italian POWs to carry their rifles for them as 1000 aussies marched 100,000 into captivity .

and you want to lecture people on growing balls Cheesy

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aquascoot

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #76 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:09pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:22am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 7:44am:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

Zelinski has already won. He has already shown the Russian army is crap. This is virtually their home turf, where supply lines should not be an issue and still they can't keep up. If Zelinski can drag it out another year russias economy will collapse completely. Russia wants to be considered a superpower. Cheesy

The only thing to Russia's advantage is their superior numbers and that they have nukes. Without the nukes, even their superior numbers wouldn't save them.

Russia went from being the second most powerful military in the world to being the second most powerful military in Ukraine.

ah no.

biden has forced them to ally with china , india (to provide gas), and the other brics countries.

and donald is having none of it

europe now faces a much bigger threat and donny has told them to man up and look after themselves.

russias position has not been weakened , europes has Cry

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John Smith

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #77 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:10pm

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:05pm:

youre from italy arent you john?

no

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:05pm:

how did you go in the desert in 1941?

I've never been to any desert

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:05pm:

australian troops report getting italian POWs to carry their rifles for them as 1000 aussies marched 100,000 into captivity .

you really are gullible aren't you

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:05pm:

and you want to lecture people on growing balls

I know it must be a strange concept for a pussy like you

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #78 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:13pm

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 11:15am:

Chilling isn't it.

Quote:

Having promised in May 2014 to defend Ukraine with NATO arms, the NATO Generals assumed that Russia would take no steps to prevent the installation of NATO medium- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles in Ukraine. Such missiles could hit much of Russia within a few minutes if launched from Ukraine. Russia learned in July 2022 that NATO had begun missile shipments to Ukraine. By August 29 new military construction and the presence of NATO technicians had been reported by Russian spy planes flying over the country, and on October 14 the presence of a ballistic missile on a launching site was reported.

Russia attacked Ukraine BEFORE MAY 2014 dumbarse Cheesy

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #79 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:14pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:13pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 11:15am:

Chilling isn't it.

Quote:

Having promised in May 2014 to defend Ukraine with NATO arms, the NATO Generals assumed that Russia would take no steps to prevent the installation of NATO medium- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles in Ukraine. Such missiles could hit much of Russia within a few minutes if launched from Ukraine. Russia learned in July 2022 that NATO had begun missile shipments to Ukraine. By August 29 new military construction and the presence of NATO technicians had been reported by Russian spy planes flying over the country, and on October 14 the presence of a ballistic missile on a launching site was reported.

Russia attacked Ukraine BEFORE MAY 2014 dumbarse Cheesy

Exactly. This was a response to Russia already officially annexing Crimea.

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #80 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:55pm

It was a piss take of this to compare the US would respond to the same situation.

Quote:

Having promised in May 1960 to defend Cuba with Soviet arms, the Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev assumed that the United States would take no steps to prevent the installation of Soviet medium- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles in Cuba. Such missiles could hit much of the eastern United States within a few minutes if launched from Cuba. The United States learned in July 1962 that the Soviet Union had begun missile shipments to Cuba. By August 29 new military construction and the presence of Soviet technicians had been reported by U.S. U-2 spy planes flying over the island, and on October 14 the presence of a ballistic missile on a launching site was reported.

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Karnal

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #81 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 1:14pm

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 12:09pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 10:22am:

John Smith wrote on Feb 20^th, 2025 at 7:44am:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:48pm:

Leroy wrote on Feb 19^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Because he has the upper hand,

bullshit. Ukraine was making a fool of him. He should have won in weeks and is still there after years. Any normal person would have died of shame at being so humiliated. But putins a typical dictator who has no shame.

All Zelensky has to do then is say no thanks Trump and keep on humiliating Putin then.

Zelinski has already won. He has already shown the Russian army is crap. This is virtually their home turf, where supply lines should not be an issue and still they can't keep up. If Zelinski can drag it out another year russias economy will collapse completely. Russia wants to be considered a superpower. Cheesy

The only thing to Russia's advantage is their superior numbers and that they have nukes. Without the nukes, even their superior numbers wouldn't save them.

Russia went from being the second most powerful military in the world to being the second most powerful military in Ukraine.

ah no.

biden has forced them to ally with china , india (to provide gas), and the other brics countries.

and donald is having none of it

europe now faces a much bigger threat and donny has told them to man up and look after themselves.

russias position has not been weakened , europes has Cry

Oh?

Yes, I remember now. JD was over in Europe only recently, explaining the current threat to Europe: the threat within.

Yes, where they all thought they were being threatened by Vlad on one side, Donnie on the other and all the lies in between, turns out the big threat is to their freedom to stand outside abortion clinics and pray.

Imagine, they're now so restricted they can't even harass girls getting abortions. Worse, in Scotland, they can't even pray in their own homes, can you imagine?

Yes, if you live within 200 meters of an abortion clinic, the police can break down your door and arrest you for praying. I mean, that's diabolically sinister, right?

Exactly. That's just what JD said: thought crime.

Pure Evil.

It's time to man up, leftards. Get with Donnie or suffer the consequences.

We'll pray for you.

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #82 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 7:22pm

Quote:

In the lead up to the Senate’s ratification in 1998, the New York Times editorial board warned: “The most important foreign policy decision America has faced since the end of the Cold War… could prove to be a mistake of historic proportions.” And this: “It is delusional to believe that NATO expansion is not at its core an act that Russia will regard as hostile.”

George Kennan—intellectual architect of the Cold War containment doctrine, a former ambassador to the USSR, and one of America’s wisest students of Russian affairs—spoke for the many dissenters in 1997 when he warned that NATO expansion “would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-Cold War era.”

It would weaken Russian reformers, embolden hard-liners, undermine strategic arms agreements, and escalate East-West tensions when Russia got back on its feet and began acting like a great power.

In the 1990s, Russia was no threat to the West and incapable of serious military action. But “if humiliated further and made desperate,” as then National Interest editor Owen Harries warned in 1996, “it could be dangerous in a way that a wounded animal can be dangerous.” In such circumstances, providing “extreme chauvinistic elements in Russia to exploit frustrations, resentments and wounded national pride… would have unpleasant consequences both internally and internationally
https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/why-nato-expansion-explains-russias-actions-in-ukraine/

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Leroy

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #83 - Feb 20^th, 2025 at 7:35pm

Quote:

In 1997, Keating delivered a lecture at UNSW warning: “To move Europe’s military demarcation point to the very borders of the former Soviet Union is, I believe, an error which may rank in the end with the strategic miscalculations which prevented Germany from taking its full place in the international system at the beginning of this century.”

Opponents also drew attention to the US and German assurances given Moscow during the early 1990s that if Russia withdrew from their Warsaw Pact and accepted German unification, NATO would not move “one inch eastwards.” According to Kennan in 1998: “We did not, I am sure, intend to trick the Russians, but the actual determinants of our later behavior… would scarcely have been more creditable on our part than a real intention to deceive.”

Shortly after the Senate ratified the first tranche of enlargement (Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland) in April 1998, Kennan told Thomas Friedman: “I think it is the beginning of new Cold War… Of course, there is going to be a bad reaction from Russia, and then [the NATO expanders] will say we always told you that is how the Russians are – but this is just wrong.”

This history serves to highlight the extent to which many distinguished military and foreign-policy experts raised strong objections to moving NATO into Russia’s backyard. Their warnings about poking at the bear proved prescient. And yet, as they consistently warned about a near-certain confrontation with post-Yeltsin Russia, it’s important to note that the opponents of NATO expansion in the 1990s were never dismissed as Kremlin apologists or Russia’s “useful idiots.” Nor were they treated as if their views were outside the boundaries of serious public discourse.

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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #84 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 7:22am

It looks like Zelensky played Trump like a fiddle.

Trump’s shifting stance on Ukraine and Russia marks a profound departure from longstanding US policy, pivoting from support for Ukrainian sovereignty to an increasingly servile accommodation of Moscow’s interests.

He’s parroting Putin’s propaganda, and his supporters, shackled by their self-inflicted TDS, are dutifully following suit. Now, Trump has escalated matters further, regurgitating Kremlin talking points about Ukraine supposedly provoking the war.

But Zelensky baited him into going even further. By simply adhering to the Ukrainian Constitution, something that any informed observer understands, he goaded Trump into predictably lashing out, branding him a “dictator.” The irony is lost only on those too invested in their own delusions.

Setting aside the textbook projection, Trump is now openly hostile to one of the key parties in the so-called peace talks, talks that the US insists it should mediate, despite excluding Ukraine from the process altogether.

And what’s the outcome? A proposal straight out of Russia’s playbook: an immediate ceasefire, wartime elections tailor-made for Kremlin interference, and a final agreement designed to enshrine Moscow’s influence over Ukraine’s future.

This charade needs to end. The US has forfeited any claim to neutrality. Europe must take the reins, because Washington, under Trump, is indistinguishable from an extension of the Kremlin.

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Frank

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #85 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 8:41am

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 7:22am:

It looks like Zelensky played Trump like a fiddle.

Trump’s shifting stance on Ukraine and Russia marks a profound departure from longstanding US policy, pivoting from support for Ukrainian sovereignty to an increasingly servile accommodation of Moscow’s interests.

He’s parroting Putin’s propaganda, and his supporters, shackled by their self-inflicted TDS, are dutifully following suit. Now, Trump has escalated matters further, regurgitating Kremlin talking points about Ukraine supposedly provoking the war.

But Zelensky baited him into going even further. By simply adhering to the Ukrainian Constitution, something that any informed observer understands, he goaded Trump into predictably lashing out, branding him a “dictator.” The irony is lost only on those too invested in their own delusions.

Setting aside the textbook projection, Trump is now openly hostile to one of the key parties in the so-called peace talks, talks that the US insists it should mediate, despite excluding Ukraine from the process altogether.

And what’s the outcome? A proposal straight out of Russia’s playbook: an immediate ceasefire, wartime elections tailor-made for Kremlin interference, and a final agreement designed to enshrine Moscow’s influence over Ukraine’s future.

This charade needs to end. The US has forfeited any claim to neutrality. Europe must take the reins, because Washington, under Trump, is indistinguishable from an extension of the Kremlin.

Zelensky has played Trump!! Cheesy

And why hasn't Europe sorted it all BEFORE Trump? Please explain.

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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 35206 Gender:	Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war Reply #86 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 9:09am Why should America take on the burden of providing Europe's security? Standards of living in Europe are very high. Why should a welder from Arkansas work 2 jobs so Hans can drive a BMW and Pierre can sip lattes in a patisserie. Trump is putting America first and rightly so
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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #87 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 9:26am

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 8:41am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 7:22am:

It looks like Zelensky played Trump like a fiddle.

Trump’s shifting stance on Ukraine and Russia marks a profound departure from longstanding US policy, pivoting from support for Ukrainian sovereignty to an increasingly servile accommodation of Moscow’s interests.

He’s parroting Putin’s propaganda, and his supporters, shackled by their self-inflicted TDS, are dutifully following suit. Now, Trump has escalated matters further, regurgitating Kremlin talking points about Ukraine supposedly provoking the war.

But Zelensky baited him into going even further. By simply adhering to the Ukrainian Constitution, something that any informed observer understands, he goaded Trump into predictably lashing out, branding him a “dictator.” The irony is lost only on those too invested in their own delusions.

Setting aside the textbook projection, Trump is now openly hostile to one of the key parties in the so-called peace talks, talks that the US insists it should mediate, despite excluding Ukraine from the process altogether.

And what’s the outcome? A proposal straight out of Russia’s playbook: an immediate ceasefire, wartime elections tailor-made for Kremlin interference, and a final agreement designed to enshrine Moscow’s influence over Ukraine’s future.

This charade needs to end. The US has forfeited any claim to neutrality. Europe must take the reins, because Washington, under Trump, is indistinguishable from an extension of the Kremlin.

Zelensky has played Trump!! Cheesy

And why hasn't Europe sorted it all BEFORE Trump? Please explain.

Whatever the EU did or didn't do, doesn't change that Trump was played, again, and easily.

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Frank

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #88 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:15am

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 9:26am:

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 8:41am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 7:22am:

It looks like Zelensky played Trump like a fiddle.

Trump’s shifting stance on Ukraine and Russia marks a profound departure from longstanding US policy, pivoting from support for Ukrainian sovereignty to an increasingly servile accommodation of Moscow’s interests.

He’s parroting Putin’s propaganda, and his supporters, shackled by their self-inflicted TDS, are dutifully following suit. Now, Trump has escalated matters further, regurgitating Kremlin talking points about Ukraine supposedly provoking the war.

But Zelensky baited him into going even further. By simply adhering to the Ukrainian Constitution, something that any informed observer understands, he goaded Trump into predictably lashing out, branding him a “dictator.” The irony is lost only on those too invested in their own delusions.

Setting aside the textbook projection, Trump is now openly hostile to one of the key parties in the so-called peace talks, talks that the US insists it should mediate, despite excluding Ukraine from the process altogether.

And what’s the outcome? A proposal straight out of Russia’s playbook: an immediate ceasefire, wartime elections tailor-made for Kremlin interference, and a final agreement designed to enshrine Moscow’s influence over Ukraine’s future.

This charade needs to end. The US has forfeited any claim to neutrality. Europe must take the reins, because Washington, under Trump, is indistinguishable from an extension of the Kremlin.

Zelensky has played Trump!! Cheesy

And why hasn't Europe sorted it all BEFORE Trump? Please explain.

Whatever the EU did or didn't do, doesn't change that Trump was played, again, and easily.

By Zelensky?? Anyway, you probably meant Trump.

But why havent the European acted before? And how would they be effective now? What did Biden do that was effective? You are talking fantasy, lala BS.

It was stupid of Trump to call Zelensky a dictator although by all account Z would lose an election.
It was stupid of the US and the Europens to reneg on Ukrainian neurality and dangle NATO and EU membership. You don't have to be a Putin to find that intolerable.
It was also very stupid of Ukraine to have nationalistic policies maltreating its large Russian ethnic minorities.

So now the two biggest European countries that are practically indistinguishable from each other are at a bloody war, financed and prolonged by NATO.

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KangAnon

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Re: Trump to Ukraine: you shouldn't have started war
Reply #89 - Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:49am

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 10:15am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 9:26am:

Frank wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 8:41am:

KangAnon wrote on Feb 21^st, 2025 at 7:22am:

It looks like Zelensky played Trump like a fiddle.

Trump’s shifting stance on Ukraine and Russia marks a profound departure from longstanding US policy, pivoting from support for Ukrainian sovereignty to an increasingly servile accommodation of Moscow’s interests.

He’s parroting Putin’s propaganda, and his supporters, shackled by their self-inflicted TDS, are dutifully following suit. Now, Trump has escalated matters further, regurgitating Kremlin talking points about Ukraine supposedly provoking the war.

But Zelensky baited him into going even further. By simply adhering to the Ukrainian Constitution, something that any informed observer understands, he goaded Trump into predictably lashing out, branding him a “dictator.” The irony is lost only on those too invested in their own delusions.

Setting aside the textbook projection, Trump is now openly hostile to one of the key parties in the so-called peace talks, talks that the US insists it should mediate, despite excluding Ukraine from the process altogether.

And what’s the outcome? A proposal straight out of Russia’s playbook: an immediate ceasefire, wartime elections tailor-made for Kremlin interference, and a final agreement designed to enshrine Moscow’s influence over Ukraine’s future.

This charade needs to end. The US has forfeited any claim to neutrality. Europe must take the reins, because Washington, under Trump, is indistinguishable from an extension of the Kremlin.

Zelensky has played Trump!! Cheesy

And why hasn't Europe sorted it all BEFORE Trump? Please explain.

Whatever the EU did or didn't do, doesn't change that Trump was played, again, and easily.

By Zelensky?? Anyway, you probably meant Trump.

But why havent the European acted before? And how would they be effective now? What did Biden do that was effective? You are talking fantasy, lala BS.

It was stupid of Trump to call Zelensky a dictator although by all account Z would lose an election.
It was stupid of the US and the Europens to reneg on Ukrainian neurality and dangle NATO and EU membership. You don't have to be a Putin to find that intolerable.
It was also very stupid of Ukraine to have nationalistic policies maltreating its large Russian ethnic minorities.

So now the two biggest European countries that are practically indistinguishable from each other are at a bloody war, financed and prolonged by NATO.

It's funny how many pro-Russian people are coming out of the woodwork in their defence of Trump.

What an odd crossover.

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