Australian Politics Forum - Zelensky walks out

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13338 Gender:	Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal Reply #435 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 12:52pm "balance the federal budget" ... Unfortunately, that will be your downfall, Donald...it will cause a recession.
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13338 Gender:	Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal Reply #436 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 12:56pm "the days of rule by unelected buteaucrats are over"... ...including the "independent" reserve bank (Federal Reserve)? Good.
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Karnal

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #437 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 1:58pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:11am:

My thoughts?

It's the nukes that stopped Biden putting in a no-fly zone
and shooting down any Russian planes over Ukraine.
It's the nukes that stopped a massive 1991 Gulf war type response.
At one stage Biden was too scared to supply 40 odd tanks to Ukraine.
Ukraine still doesn't have a proper air force.
Ukraine was nobbled right from the start in 2022 by Biden.
Zelensky should have realised that he was only ever going to be given
just enough weapons to cause a stalemate and a huge loss of life,
over a long period of time in attritional warfare.
He should have told Biden in 2022 -

"you either give us what we really need or we'll surrender and Russia will
be right on the border of NATO – and you'll have to fight them – not us."

Biden united Europe behind Ukraine, dear. Your DL just pulled their military aid.

Europe is left to fight this one alone. When they're done, you'll throw out more pro-Russian lies, and more.

Day One, innit.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #438 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:16pm

(Tagtik)

Genius solution? ‘If Russia attacks again, Ukraine will automatically become a NATO member’

My comment: Now that IS genius, if Trump can negotiate an end to the war on terms which Putin accepts.

(Not Zelensky, he wants to keep control of all Ukraine, despite several majority Russian-speaking areas in Ukraine).

......

Finnish President Alexander Stubb puts a clause on the table that may well be welcomed by Ukraine and all its allies.

The Finnish president argues that Ukraine will automatically join NATO if Russia breaks a ceasefire. Stubb said this in an interview with US broadcaster CNN. Credit where credit is due: this suggestion was presumably first floated by a senator close to the US president. It was Republican senator Lindsey Graham who already suggested the idea on the sidelines of the Munich security conference.

However, Trump has already made it clear that Ukraine joining NATO is absolutely not an option. In fact, the US president is temporarily halting all aid to Ukraine after he and his vice-president cornered the Ukrainian president during his visit to the White House. For its part, Russia has also always opposed Ukraine's possible accession to NATO. That is precisely why this suggestion by the Finnish president could be valuable.

‘Why not give them ‘de facto’ NATO membership, which essentially means that if negotiations are successful and a peace agreement is reached, part of that agreement stipulates that if Russia violates it, breaks the ceasefire or attacks Ukraine again, then Kiev will automatically join NATO,’ he said.

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« Last Edit: Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:24pm by thegreatdivide »

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Leroy

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #439 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:16pm:

(Tagtik)

Genius solution? ‘If Russia attacks again, Ukraine will automatically become a NATO member’

My comment: Now that IS genius, if Trump can negotiate an end to the war on terms which Putin accepts.

(Not Zelensky, he wants to keep control of all Ukraine, despite several majority Russian-speaking areas in Ukraine).

......

Finnish President Alexander Stubb puts a clause on the table that may well be welcomed by Ukraine and all its allies.

The Finnish president argues that Ukraine will automatically join NATO if Russia breaks a ceasefire. Stubb said this in an interview with US broadcaster CNN. Credit where credit is due: this suggestion was presumably first floated by a senator close to the US president. It was Republican senator Lindsey Graham who already suggested the idea on the sidelines of the Munich security conference.

However, Trump has already made it clear that Ukraine joining NATO is absolutely not an option. In fact, the US president is temporarily halting all aid to Ukraine after he and his vice-president cornered the Ukrainian president during his visit to the White House. For its part, Russia has also always opposed Ukraine's possible accession to NATO. That is precisely why this suggestion by the Finnish president could be valuable.

‘Why not give them ‘de facto’ NATO membership, which essentially means that if negotiations are successful and a peace agreement is reached, part of that agreement stipulates that if Russia violates it, breaks the ceasefire or attacks Ukraine again, then Kiev will automatically join NATO,’ he said.

A country cannot be in conflict when it joins NATO, also that would mean NATO countries would be at war with Russia should they attack Ukraine.

French and British military sites will be legitimate targets should NATO take on Russia, do you think these countries have the stomach to go to war?.

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aquascoot

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #440 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:43pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 1:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:11am:

My thoughts?

It's the nukes that stopped Biden putting in a no-fly zone
and shooting down any Russian planes over Ukraine.
It's the nukes that stopped a massive 1991 Gulf war type response.
At one stage Biden was too scared to supply 40 odd tanks to Ukraine.
Ukraine still doesn't have a proper air force.
Ukraine was nobbled right from the start in 2022 by Biden.
Zelensky should have realised that he was only ever going to be given
just enough weapons to cause a stalemate and a huge loss of life,
over a long period of time in attritional warfare.
He should have told Biden in 2022 -

"you either give us what we really need or we'll surrender and Russia will
be right on the border of NATO – and you'll have to fight them – not us."

Biden united Europe behind Ukraine, dear. Your DL just pulled their military aid.

Europe is left to fight this one alone. When they're done, you'll throw out more pro-Russian lies, and more.

Day One, innit.

correct biden kept it going and caused a genocide.

he should have stopped it 1 month in.

he didnt because he had dementia and the war mongering puppets who controlled him needed to pay off their sponsors at lockheed martin, raytheon and northrop Roll Eyes

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philperth2010

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #441 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:47pm

aquascoot wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 1:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:11am:

My thoughts?

It's the nukes that stopped Biden putting in a no-fly zone
and shooting down any Russian planes over Ukraine.
It's the nukes that stopped a massive 1991 Gulf war type response.
At one stage Biden was too scared to supply 40 odd tanks to Ukraine.
Ukraine still doesn't have a proper air force.
Ukraine was nobbled right from the start in 2022 by Biden.
Zelensky should have realised that he was only ever going to be given
just enough weapons to cause a stalemate and a huge loss of life,
over a long period of time in attritional warfare.
He should have told Biden in 2022 -

"you either give us what we really need or we'll surrender and Russia will
be right on the border of NATO – and you'll have to fight them – not us."

Biden united Europe behind Ukraine, dear. Your DL just pulled their military aid.

Europe is left to fight this one alone. When they're done, you'll throw out more pro-Russian lies, and more.

Day One, innit.

correct biden kept it going and caused a genocide.

he should have stopped it 1 month in.

he didnt because he had dementia and the war mongering puppets who controlled him needed to pay off their sponsors at lockheed martin, raytheon and northrop Roll Eyes

Trump said he would end the war on day one which we know is bullshit....The only way to end the war is for Russia to end it or Ukraine is defeated....Ukraine will never agree to the terms Putin and Trump have demanded....The EU is coming up with an alternatve plan which Putin and Trump will reject....No peace just more uncertainty with the possibility of escalation....Biden could no more end the war than Trump can....Trump is as deluded as you!!!

Roll Eyes

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Leroy

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #442 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:00pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:47pm:

aquascoot wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 1:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:11am:

My thoughts?

It's the nukes that stopped Biden putting in a no-fly zone
and shooting down any Russian planes over Ukraine.
It's the nukes that stopped a massive 1991 Gulf war type response.
At one stage Biden was too scared to supply 40 odd tanks to Ukraine.
Ukraine still doesn't have a proper air force.
Ukraine was nobbled right from the start in 2022 by Biden.
Zelensky should have realised that he was only ever going to be given
just enough weapons to cause a stalemate and a huge loss of life,
over a long period of time in attritional warfare.
He should have told Biden in 2022 -

"you either give us what we really need or we'll surrender and Russia will
be right on the border of NATO – and you'll have to fight them – not us."

Biden united Europe behind Ukraine, dear. Your DL just pulled their military aid.

Europe is left to fight this one alone. When they're done, you'll throw out more pro-Russian lies, and more.

Day One, innit.

correct biden kept it going and caused a genocide.

he should have stopped it 1 month in.

he didnt because he had dementia and the war mongering puppets who controlled him needed to pay off their sponsors at lockheed martin, raytheon and northrop Roll Eyes

Trump said he would end the war on day one which we know is bullshit....The only way to end the war is for Russia to end it or Ukraine is defeated....Ukraine will never agree to the terms Putin and Trump have demanded....The EU is coming up with an alternatve plan which Putin and Trump will reject....No peace just more uncertainty with the possibility of escalation....Biden could no more end the war than Trump can....Trump is as deluded as you!!!

Roll Eyes

Trump is a mediator, he can only present what Russia and Ukraine want.

Biden sabotaged any chance of an early peace deal by allowing Ukraine to use long range missiles when he realized that the dems had lost the election.

The UN waited three years to condemn Russia and only days before they were trying to negotiate a peace deal. This was a clear case of sabotaging the peace deal negotiations, thats why Trump vetoed it, he was looking for an end to the war not a chance to call Putin names.

This is just a fracas between Ukraine and Russia, no sensible country are going to send their children into a war that has no purpose other than to kill people.

Would you Phil allow your children to go and fight in this war to protect Ukraine?.

I bet you wouldn't.

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philperth2010

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #443 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:17pm

Leroy wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:00pm:

Trump is a mediator, he can only present what Russia and Ukraine want.

Biden sabotaged any chance of an early peace deal by allowing Ukraine to use long range missiles when he realized that the dems had lost the election.

The UN waited three years to condemn Russia and only days before they were trying to negotiate a peace deal. This was a clear case of sabotaging the peace deal negotiations, thats why Trump vetoed it, he was looking for an end to the war not a chance to call Putin names.

This is just a fracas between Ukraine and Russia, no sensible country are going to send their children into a war that has no purpose other than to kill people.

Would you Phil allow your children to go and fight in this war to protect Ukraine?.

I bet you wouldn't.

I don't believe any foreign troops should enter the war including North Korean....However if European countries do send troops it will only escalate the conflict....The only deal that Ukraine will accept is for Russia to pull back it's army and stop bombing Ukraine which Putin will not agree to....You are correct that Trump has only fired his childish insults at the Ukraine President....Putin is everthing he is being accused of and cannot be trusted....You have swallowed the Kremlins bullshit mate!!!

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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aquascoot

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #444 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:27pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:17pm:

Leroy wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:00pm:

Trump is a mediator, he can only present what Russia and Ukraine want.

Biden sabotaged any chance of an early peace deal by allowing Ukraine to use long range missiles when he realized that the dems had lost the election.

The UN waited three years to condemn Russia and only days before they were trying to negotiate a peace deal. This was a clear case of sabotaging the peace deal negotiations, thats why Trump vetoed it, he was looking for an end to the war not a chance to call Putin names.

This is just a fracas between Ukraine and Russia, no sensible country are going to send their children into a war that has no purpose other than to kill people.

Would you Phil allow your children to go and fight in this war to protect Ukraine?.

I bet you wouldn't.

I don't believe any foreign troops should enter the war including North Korean....However if European countries do send troops it will only escalate the conflict....The only deal that Ukraine will accept is for Russia to pull back it's army and stop bombing Ukraine which Putin will not agree to....You are correct that Trump has only fired his childish insults at the Ukraine President....Putin is everthing he is being accused of and cannot be trusted....You have swallowed the Kremlins bullshit mate!!!

Roll Eyes

meh

2months in ukraine could have given up a bit of land and established a dmz and ended it

2 years in an 1 million dead they have the EXACT same option

they can kick on for another year, another million dead, all their infrastructure destroyed and they will be in the EXACT same position.

common sense should tell zelinsky to have the humility to accept that which he cannot change

who benefits from another 12 months of trench warfare.

certainly not ukraine

and the russians are excellent at defensive warfare so the ukranians arent reclaiming anything

they have fought (bravely) to the last ukranian

keyboard warriors in the west who wet their pants over a flu virus are cheering them on.

how smacking disgraceful and cowardly

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Leroy

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #445 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:35pm

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:17pm:

Leroy wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 7:00pm:

Trump is a mediator, he can only present what Russia and Ukraine want.

Biden sabotaged any chance of an early peace deal by allowing Ukraine to use long range missiles when he realized that the dems had lost the election.

The UN waited three years to condemn Russia and only days before they were trying to negotiate a peace deal. This was a clear case of sabotaging the peace deal negotiations, thats why Trump vetoed it, he was looking for an end to the war not a chance to call Putin names.

This is just a fracas between Ukraine and Russia, no sensible country are going to send their children into a war that has no purpose other than to kill people.

Would you Phil allow your children to go and fight in this war to protect Ukraine?.

I bet you wouldn't.

I don't believe any foreign troops should enter the war including North Korean....However if European countries do send troops it will only escalate the conflict....The only deal that Ukraine will accept is for Russia to pull back it's army and stop bombing Ukraine which Putin will not agree to....You are correct that Trump has only fired his childish insults at the Ukraine President....Putin is everthing he is being accused of and cannot be trusted....You have swallowed the Kremlins bullshit mate!!!

Roll Eyes

Thats your take, but I'm just old enough to know that if you only listen to one side you end up with a cockeyed view of the real story. I don't support either. I know in your world you can only hate Trump or support every little thing he does, simple as that.

If you don't understand what Russia want and what they need to end the war you have far less chance of getting peace. Trump was right, Zelensky does not have the cards to and can only use the cards he is dealt. Putin has the upper hand, you can't deny that, he has the ground, he has the will and he has the means. Zelensky is running out of time, it won't be long before the public have had enough of this war, they can't keep pouring billions into it and they dont have the stomach to send it troops or engage in a larger war.

Russia won't pull back, that land is gone and only force and massive loss of lives will recover it. That is your options.

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Karnal

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #446 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 9:34pm

aquascoot wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 5:43pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 1:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 6:11am:

My thoughts?

It's the nukes that stopped Biden putting in a no-fly zone
and shooting down any Russian planes over Ukraine.
It's the nukes that stopped a massive 1991 Gulf war type response.
At one stage Biden was too scared to supply 40 odd tanks to Ukraine.
Ukraine still doesn't have a proper air force.
Ukraine was nobbled right from the start in 2022 by Biden.
Zelensky should have realised that he was only ever going to be given
just enough weapons to cause a stalemate and a huge loss of life,
over a long period of time in attritional warfare.
He should have told Biden in 2022 -

"you either give us what we really need or we'll surrender and Russia will
be right on the border of NATO – and you'll have to fight them – not us."

Biden united Europe behind Ukraine, dear. Your DL just pulled their military aid.

Europe is left to fight this one alone. When they're done, you'll throw out more pro-Russian lies, and more.

Day One, innit.

correct biden kept it going and caused a genocide.

he should have stopped it 1 month in.

he didnt because he had dementia and the war mongering puppets who controlled him needed to pay off their sponsors at lockheed martin, raytheon and northrop Roll Eyes

If you don't mind my saying, dear, every sentence of yours above - nearly every word - is the most vacuous, fake krap possible. I couldn't write this if I was trying to be dumb.

So you do deserve congratulations. Dementia, warmongering, genocide. You left out Vlad's favourite word: peace. We must have peace. Even DL's taken to saying it.

Funny that, but do you know?

You haven't even come close to how peace can be created in Ukraine. We know Vlad's definition. That's where you take the first country, then move onto the next.

Maybe stop writing pearlers like this one for a tick and give us your final solution for Ukraine.

How's DL going to bring peace?

Apart from giving up, I mean. We'll pretend that was a masterful move if it helps.

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Bobby.

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #447 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 9:37pm

Karnal wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 9:34pm:

If you don't mind my saying, dear, every sentence of yours - nearly every word - is the most vacuous, fake krap possible. I couldn't write this if I was trying to be dumb.

So you do deserve congratulations. Dementia, warmongering, genocide and Vlad's favourite word: peace. We must have peace. Even DL's taken to saying it.

Funny that, but do you know?

You haven't even come close to how peace can be created in Ukraine. We know Vlad's definition. That's where you take the first country, then move onto the next.

So again, I'm curious. Maybe stop writing pearlers like this one for a tick and give us your final solution.

How's DL going to bring peace?

Apart from giving up, I mean. We'll pretend that was a masterful move if it helps.

He talked about Greenland today.

It looks like the major powers are going to carve up the world:

Trump gets Greenland and Panama,
Putin gets Ukraine,
Xi Jinping gets Taiwan.

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Grappler Deep State Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 85590 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal Reply #448 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 10:13pm
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Karnal

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Re: Zelensky walks out - it's no deal
Reply #449 - Mar 5^th, 2025 at 11:25pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 9:37pm:

Karnal wrote on Mar 5^th, 2025 at 9:34pm:

If you don't mind my saying, dear, every sentence of yours - nearly every word - is the most vacuous, fake krap possible. I couldn't write this if I was trying to be dumb.

So you do deserve congratulations. Dementia, warmongering, genocide and Vlad's favourite word: peace. We must have peace. Even DL's taken to saying it.

Funny that, but do you know?

You haven't even come close to how peace can be created in Ukraine. We know Vlad's definition. That's where you take the first country, then move onto the next.

So again, I'm curious. Maybe stop writing pearlers like this one for a tick and give us your final solution.

How's DL going to bring peace?

Apart from giving up, I mean. We'll pretend that was a masterful move if it helps.

He talked about Greenland today.

It looks like the major powers are going to carve up the world:

Trump gets Greenland and Panama,
Putin gets Ukraine,
Xi Jinping gets Taiwan.

And who gets Australia, Bobby?

I'm curious. Not Soros, shurely. He's been replaced by Elon.

DEEP STATE !!!!

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