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biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy (Read 1149 times)
lee
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #30 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 4:35pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2025 at 3:58pm:
You have been confused for so long Lee that you have forgotten what you are confused about.



Poor petal. Doesn't know what level of CO2 emissions re required for life on earth. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Sir Eoin O Fada
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #31 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 4:36pm
 
As China has 1,100 coal fired power plants and Australia has only 24 it can easily be seen that we are doing our bit to save the planet.

We are also the world’s fourth largest producer of coal so it can easily be seen that we are doing our bit to keep the world’s coal fired plants going.

Hypocrisy anyone?
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #32 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 4:47pm
 
lee wrote on Mar 7th, 2025 at 4:35pm:
freediver wrote on Mar 7th, 2025 at 3:58pm:
You have been confused for so long Lee that you have forgotten what you are confused about.



Poor petal. Doesn't know what level of CO2 emissions re required for life on earth. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


I agree that you should vote for the LNP. You are precisely the type of voter they are targeting.
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lee
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #33 - Mar 7th, 2025 at 5:22pm
 
Poor petal. Never wanting to quantify anything, but it will be cheaper. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #34 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:16am
 
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 11:37am:



What bollocks.

AGW Climate Change propaganda.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #35 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:22am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 4:32pm:
lee wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 3:56pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 11:37am:


Marvellous what happens when renewables don't work as expected. Fossil fuel generators have to run on standby mode as renewables get first crack. So you have part-time renewable energy supported by fossil fuel generators working part-time. Paying two for the price of one. Roll Eyes


Correct. So we need to get rid of coal ASAP, but the government's attachment to the private sector is hindering the rollout of rewables plus storage, hence the schizoid attachment to fossils AND renewables. 

Attachment to the private sector will cook the planet ....


Gawd you're wanker..... so you want to go back to living in the dark? Have you stocked up on candles and invested in a Ice Box?

And knobjockey it's the private sector old fossil fuel energy companies that are going down the so called renewables path ....... because they can and are make more money!!!!

That however has nothing to do with the provision of reliable/consistent power across the country or to power industry ..... if we have any left that is.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #36 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:33am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 6:10pm:
Quote:
So we need to get rid of coal ASAP


China is still building brand new coal fired power stations. I realise most Chinese construction is dodgy AF, but they will still be around for a while. They will keep patching them up.


We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.

Quote:
In 2023, China led the world in building new coal-fired power plants, with India, Indonesia, and Bangladesh also seeing significant increases in new coal power capacity.

China:
China is the largest builder of new coal-fired power plants, accounting for 95% of the world's new coal construction in 2023. Despite pledges to reduce coal consumption, China continues to add new coal capacity, with some provinces justifying it as needed to support grid stability and renewable energy integration.

India:
India saw a significant increase in new coal capacity proposed in 2023, including the revival of stalled projects.

Indonesia:
Indonesia also saw a notable increase in new coal proposals, with revived projects contributing to the growth.

Other countries:
Bangladesh, Kazakhstan, Russia, the Philippines, Botswana, and Nigeria also saw revived proposals and construction restarting in 2023.

Global Context:
Globally, coal-fired capacity grew in 2023, with the highest net increase in operating coal capacity since 2016, driven by new builds in China and delays in decommissioning elsewhere.

Just Energy Transition Partnerships:

In 2022, Just Energy Transition Partnerships (JETPs) were announced in Indonesia and Vietnam to support decarbonization efforts, including a transition away from coal power.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #37 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:40am
 
Quote:
We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.


No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #38 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:47am
 
Sir Eoin O Fada wrote on Mar 6th, 2025 at 8:01pm:
Regarding emissions, India has invested in electric freight and fast passenger locomotives.by the thousands.
‘’ 37% of the trains are operated by diesel locomotives and rest mostly by electric locomotives. As of December 2023, Indian Railways had 10,238 electric and 4,543 diesel locomotives amongst others.’’
Australia appears to have none, I remember electric locomotives in NSW but they have all disappeared.
Rumour has it that they are on a back siding at Werris Creek, but they may have been quietly scrapped.


There are plenty of electric locomotives in the QLD coal fields.

BTW how do you think the electricity used for electric locomotives is generated?

Answer coal fired power stations.

As for the number of diesel electric locomotives  that were maintained i.e. for Hunter Valley coal and other long haul rail freight locations is because outside of our cities the rail lines had never been electrified.

Beyond Brisbane the rail line is electrified to Rockhampton - and west to Emerald.

Except for what is called diesel hydraulic driven locos or diesel hydraulic power units on long distance passenger services all ..... Diesel locomotives are actually diesel electric....

meaning their huge diesel engines drive a large generator that produces power for the 6 electric traction motors on each axle.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #39 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 11:36am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:40am:
Quote:
We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.


No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.


Callide C caused 500,000 out of 5.69 million QLDers  to be without power only for a short time -

as Callide B (700 mw) was still operating  & the QLD grid still had Gladstone(1,680mw), Stanwell(1,445mw), Tarong(1,400 mw), Tarong North(443 mw), Kogan Creek(750 mw),Darling Downs Power Station(630 mw), Millmerran(850 mw) with total capacity of 9,343 mw.

& Wivenhoe pumped hydro(570 mw) operating.

The 7 "run of river" hydro stations in QLD only produce between 1.6 mw to 88 mw of power.

The largest being Wivenhoe which is also pumped hydro as well as a smaller river run system . It can generate 570 mw but is only capable of 10 hours generation before the top dam has to be refilled. It takes 14 hrs to pump water back up with the generator becoming a 240 mw pump motor.

7 hydro stations with only 650 mw capacity if that.

Don't even mention batteries or electric cars at home as grid suppliers - it's a nonsense.

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #40 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 11:51am
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:40am:
BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.


Gas - proposed to be removed ... a fossil fuel.
Conventional Hydro - can be good, however Snowy 1 caused a lot of problems when they moved the water flow.

Pumped hydro - a short term solution to a long term challenge

EV's - need to be charged before being connected VtG, another short term solution to a long term challenge.

Batteries - only some have an 8 hour capability. Plus of course there inherent losses.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #41 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 12:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:40am:
Quote:
We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.


No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.


The rotor is on the steam driven turbine, the coal fired plant would have still been available. If the generator fails it would not matter if the plant was driven by coal, wind, solar or hydro the plant will shut down.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #42 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 12:33pm
 
Gnads wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 11:36am:
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:40am:
Quote:
We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.


No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.


Callide C caused 500,000 out of 5.69 million QLDers  to be without power only for a short time -

as Callide B (700 mw) was still operating  & the QLD grid still had Gladstone(1,680mw), Stanwell(1,445mw), Tarong(1,400 mw), Tarong North(443 mw), Kogan Creek(750 mw),Darling Downs Power Station(630 mw), Millmerran(850 mw) with total capacity of 9,343 mw.

& Wivenhoe pumped hydro(570 mw) operating.

The 7 "run of river" hydro stations in QLD only produce between 1.6 mw to 88 mw of power.

The largest being Wivenhoe which is also pumped hydro as well as a smaller river run system . It can generate 570 mw but is only capable of 10 hours generation before the top dam has to be refilled. It takes 14 hrs to pump water back up with the generator becoming a 240 mw pump motor.

7 hydro stations with only 650 mw capacity if that.

Don't even mention batteries or electric cars at home as grid suppliers - it's a nonsense.



Why is it nonsense? I know people who are running their appliances off one as we speak. As EV's become more popular, this is a potentially huge supply of storage.

Quote:
The rotor is on the steam driven turbine, the coal fired plant would have still been available.


Grin

Quote:
If the generator fails it would not matter if the plant was driven by coal, wind, solar or hydro the plant will shut down.


Except all those other technologies are smaller and more distributed, which is why we have not had a single blackout caused by them. A failure of a single piece of equipment will not disrupt the entire grid.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #43 - Mar 8th, 2025 at 3:32pm
 
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 12:33pm:
Gnads wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 11:36am:
freediver wrote on Mar 8th, 2025 at 10:40am:
Quote:
We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.


No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.


Callide C caused 500,000 out of 5.69 million QLDers  to be without power only for a short time -

as Callide B (700 mw) was still operating  & the QLD grid still had Gladstone(1,680mw), Stanwell(1,445mw), Tarong(1,400 mw), Tarong North(443 mw), Kogan Creek(750 mw),Darling Downs Power Station(630 mw), Millmerran(850 mw) with total capacity of 9,343 mw.

& Wivenhoe pumped hydro(570 mw) operating.

The 7 "run of river" hydro stations in QLD only produce between 1.6 mw to 88 mw of power.

The largest being Wivenhoe which is also pumped hydro as well as a smaller river run system . It can generate 570 mw but is only capable of 10 hours generation before the top dam has to be refilled. It takes 14 hrs to pump water back up with the generator becoming a 240 mw pump motor.

7 hydro stations with only 650 mw capacity if that.

Don't even mention batteries or electric cars at home as grid suppliers - it's a nonsense.



Why is it nonsense? I know people who are running their appliances off one as we speak. As EV's become more popular, this is a potentially huge supply of storage.

Quote:
The rotor is on the steam driven turbine, the coal fired plant would have still been available.


Grin

Quote:
If the generator fails it would not matter if the plant was driven by coal, wind, solar or hydro the plant will shut down.


Except all those other technologies are smaller and more distributed, which is why we have not had a single blackout caused by them. A failure of a single piece of equipment will not disrupt the entire grid.


The reason you haven't had a blackout because of them is because while you have coal you can cover any shortfall caused by a failure of Renewables (renewables cannot cover for coal or gas.). Without coal or gas as the main source then you are going to have more blackouts than you expect.
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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #44 - Mar 9th, 2025 at 8:46am
 
Quote:
The reason you haven't had a blackout because of them is because while you have coal you can cover any shortfall caused by a failure of Renewables (renewables cannot cover for coal or gas.).


Why couldn't coal fired power stations cover the shortfall when a coal fired station went down?
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