Australian Politics Forum - biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy

lee

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #60 - Mar 9^th, 2025 at 6:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:26pm:

impervious to learning; everyone needs to understand the private sector will cook the planet.

Shades of Guterres and the boiling oceans. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:26pm:

The idea climate change may generate a cyclone that ploughs into south-east Queensland was already a “nightmare scenario” for the country’s insurance industry, the same companies who wanted to charge her $30k a year to insure her home. If they were taking it seriously, why shouldn’t Valerie?

So a nightmare for the insurance industry? Grin

What do you think they do with previous years profits? Piss it up against the wall or be prepared for worse years? Some economic modeller you are. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:26pm:

Profit-seeking private-sector insurance companies "taking climate change seriously"...why would that be, I wonder...

Because they want to increase premiums to the gullible. Roll Eyes

You know SE queensland has had cyclones before? Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #61 - Mar 9^th, 2025 at 8:32pm

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 3:30pm:

Less than the cost of nuclear. Have you forgotten the many discussion we have already had on this?

You mean the ones where you wouldn't propose what it would cost? Grin

I have given you the costs dozens of times. Have you forgotten again already dear?

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 18115 Gender:	Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy Reply #62 - Mar 9^th, 2025 at 8:53pm freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 8:32pm: I have given you the costs dozens of times. Nope. Cheaper than nuclear is not a cost, it's bypassing the cost.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49572 At my desk.	Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy Reply #63 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 8:05am No Lee. I have given you the actual costs. Dozens of times. Why do you keep forgetting?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #64 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:18am

Leroy wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:26pm:

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 3:30pm:

Less than the cost of nuclear. Have you forgotten the many discussion we have already had on this?

You mean the ones where you wouldn't propose what it would cost? Grin

Poor deluded lee, impervious to learning; everyone needs to understand the private sector will cook the planet.

(The Guardian, on Valerie's attempt to escape Alfred..)

The idea climate change may generate a cyclone that ploughs into south-east Queensland was already a “nightmare scenario” for the country’s insurance industry, the same companies who wanted to charge her $30k a year to insure her home. If they were taking it seriously, why shouldn’t Valerie?

Profit-seeking private-sector insurance companies "taking climate change seriously"...why would that be, I wonder...

I have noticed that with the ice melting they are finding frozen bodies from 1,000's of years ago, just like there was a global warming back then too.

\

The difference is the current global warming caused by AGW-CO2 emissions is hastened by thousands of years.

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Leroy

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #65 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:25am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:18am:

Leroy wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:26pm:

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 3:30pm:

Less than the cost of nuclear. Have you forgotten the many discussion we have already had on this?

You mean the ones where you wouldn't propose what it would cost? Grin

Poor deluded lee, impervious to learning; everyone needs to understand the private sector will cook the planet.

(The Guardian, on Valerie's attempt to escape Alfred..)

The idea climate change may generate a cyclone that ploughs into south-east Queensland was already a “nightmare scenario” for the country’s insurance industry, the same companies who wanted to charge her $30k a year to insure her home. If they were taking it seriously, why shouldn’t Valerie?

Profit-seeking private-sector insurance companies "taking climate change seriously"...why would that be, I wonder...

I have noticed that with the ice melting they are finding frozen bodies from 1,000's of years ago, just like there was a global warming back then too.

\

The difference is the current global warming caused by AGW-CO2 emissions is hastened by thousands of years.

That is only a theory. The world was once flat too.

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freediver

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #66 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:35am

Every major party is committed to action on climate change. Only the absolute lunatic fringe is still opposed. The only point of disagreement is how. The Liberal party is offering us the most expensive solution on the planet, a few decades too late, and promising a rush job on the most dangerous technology available. The Greens and the ALP already delivered the cheapest option available over a decade ago, but the Liberal part didn't like that. Or rather, their donors didn't like it.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #67 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 11:53am

Leroy wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:25am:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:18am:

Leroy wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:39pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 5:26pm:

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 4:08pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 3:30pm:

Less than the cost of nuclear. Have you forgotten the many discussion we have already had on this?

You mean the ones where you wouldn't propose what it would cost? Grin

Poor deluded lee, impervious to learning; everyone needs to understand the private sector will cook the planet.

(The Guardian, on Valerie's attempt to escape Alfred..)

The idea climate change may generate a cyclone that ploughs into south-east Queensland was already a “nightmare scenario” for the country’s insurance industry, the same companies who wanted to charge her $30k a year to insure her home. If they were taking it seriously, why shouldn’t Valerie?

Profit-seeking private-sector insurance companies "taking climate change seriously"...why would that be, I wonder...

I have noticed that with the ice melting they are finding frozen bodies from 1,000's of years ago, just like there was a global warming back then too.

\

The difference is the current global warming caused by AGW-CO2 emissions is hastened by thousands of years.

That is only a theory. The world was once flat too.

That belief has been proven false, unlike AGW-CO2 emissions projections based on scientific data.

Keep trying Leroy; your own manifestation of Trump's Derangement Syndrome, while supporting the reality of the infamous TDS, is becoming more and more evident.

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Gnads

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #68 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:22pm

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2025 at 12:33pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 8^th, 2025 at 11:36am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2025 at 10:40am:

Quote:

We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.

No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.

Callide C caused 500,000 out of 5.69 million QLDers to be without power only for a short time -

as Callide B (700 mw) was still operating & the QLD grid still had Gladstone(1,680mw), Stanwell(1,445mw), Tarong(1,400 mw), Tarong North(443 mw), Kogan Creek(750 mw),Darling Downs Power Station(630 mw), Millmerran(850 mw) with total capacity of 9,343 mw.

& Wivenhoe pumped hydro(570 mw) operating.

The 7 "run of river" hydro stations in QLD only produce between 1.6 mw to 88 mw of power.

The largest being Wivenhoe which is also pumped hydro as well as a smaller river run system . It can generate 570 mw but is only capable of 10 hours generation before the top dam has to be refilled. It takes 14 hrs to pump water back up with the generator becoming a 240 mw pump motor.

7 hydro stations with only 650 mw capacity if that.

Don't even mention batteries or electric cars at home as grid suppliers - it's a nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? I know people who are running their appliances off one as we speak. As EV's become more popular, this is a potentially huge supply of storage.

Quote:

The rotor is on the steam driven turbine, the coal fired plant would have still been available.

Quote:

If the generator fails it would not matter if the plant was driven by coal, wind, solar or hydro the plant will shut down.

Except all those other technologies are smaller and more distributed, which is why we have not had a single blackout caused by them. A failure of a single piece of equipment will not disrupt the entire grid.

Tell me FD - what are EVs bought for?

To commute - to drive from A to B - not to be powering appliances in a home.

Whilst it was doing that it wouldn't be charging for it's next days use.

That's a lot of money( $50k or $60k) to do something a $5000 6 kw rooftop solar system and battery will do.

Plus most homes & local electricity grid infrastructure isn't up to scratch.

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Gnads

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #69 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:24pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 8:46am:

Quote:

The reason you haven't had a blackout because of them is because while you have coal you can cover any shortfall caused by a failure of Renewables (renewables cannot cover for coal or gas.).

Why couldn't coal fired power stations cover the shortfall when a coal fired station went down?

They did.

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freediver

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #70 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:25pm

Gnads wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 8:46am:

Quote:

The reason you haven't had a blackout because of them is because while you have coal you can cover any shortfall caused by a failure of Renewables (renewables cannot cover for coal or gas.).

Why couldn't coal fired power stations cover the shortfall when a coal fired station went down?

They did.

They didn't. A lot of QLD went into blackout.

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Gnads

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #71 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:27pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 3:30pm:

Quote:

At what cost?

Less than the cost of nuclear. Have you forgotten the many discussion we have already had on this?

The cost of running your home from your EV is essentially free. They come with a pack that gives 240V output. If there is enough demand, we will end up with home smart chargers for EVs that work seamlessly both ways.

Quote:

A true blackout is when the whole grid goes down.

I think you will find that people are more interested in whether their own power is connected. Losing power to the whole state 10% of the time, and losing power to a changing 10% of the state 100% of the time, means the same thing to the end user, even though only 1 of them counts as a "true blackout" by your definition.

Did you have some kind of point?

Rubbish - nothing is for free.

How is your EV to be recharged?

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Gnads

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #72 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:30pm

freediver wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 10:35am:

Every major party is committed to action on climate change. Only the absolute lunatic fringe is still opposed. The only point of disagreement is how. The Liberal party is offering us the most expensive solution on the planet, a few decades too late, and promising a rush job on the most dangerous technology available. The Greens and the ALP already delivered the cheapest option available over a decade ago, but the Liberal part didn't like that. Or rather, their donors didn't like it.

Actually the lunatic fringe are the AGW climate change disciples.

The experts are science for hire/bought science.

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freediver

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #73 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:31pm

Gnads wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:22pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2025 at 12:33pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 8^th, 2025 at 11:36am:

freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2025 at 10:40am:

Quote:

We need coal fired power as part of our energy mix because wind, solar and batteries are not reliable.

No-one seemed to think it was a problem when a large chuck of QLD lost power for a long time because a coal fired power station threw a rotor. We will have rolling blackouts by the time the coalition get their first nuclear plant built, if they don't come to their senses.

BTW, we also have gas, conventional hydro, pumped storage systems, electric cars and various other grid-connected batteries.

Callide C caused 500,000 out of 5.69 million QLDers to be without power only for a short time -

as Callide B (700 mw) was still operating & the QLD grid still had Gladstone(1,680mw), Stanwell(1,445mw), Tarong(1,400 mw), Tarong North(443 mw), Kogan Creek(750 mw),Darling Downs Power Station(630 mw), Millmerran(850 mw) with total capacity of 9,343 mw.

& Wivenhoe pumped hydro(570 mw) operating.

The 7 "run of river" hydro stations in QLD only produce between 1.6 mw to 88 mw of power.

The largest being Wivenhoe which is also pumped hydro as well as a smaller river run system . It can generate 570 mw but is only capable of 10 hours generation before the top dam has to be refilled. It takes 14 hrs to pump water back up with the generator becoming a 240 mw pump motor.

7 hydro stations with only 650 mw capacity if that.

Don't even mention batteries or electric cars at home as grid suppliers - it's a nonsense.

Why is it nonsense? I know people who are running their appliances off one as we speak. As EV's become more popular, this is a potentially huge supply of storage.

Quote:

The rotor is on the steam driven turbine, the coal fired plant would have still been available.

Quote:

If the generator fails it would not matter if the plant was driven by coal, wind, solar or hydro the plant will shut down.

Except all those other technologies are smaller and more distributed, which is why we have not had a single blackout caused by them. A failure of a single piece of equipment will not disrupt the entire grid.

Tell me FD - what are EVs bought for?

To commute - to drive from A to B - not to be powering appliances in a home.

Whilst it was doing that it wouldn't be charging for it's next days use.

That's a lot of money( $50k or $60k) to do something a $5000 6 kw rooftop solar system and battery will do.

Plus most homes & local electricity grid infrastructure isn't up to scratch.

The additional cost of the converter is pretty much nothing. It comes standard with the vehicle. I know someone who is right now running their household from their hybrid vehicle. Obviously it works better if you work from home, but even if you do not, you are still going to be home for most of the day.

What they are bought for, and what they can be used for, are not necessarily the same thing. Hence my observation that EV's are a huge opportunity for storage that are not susceptible to either grid or supply failure.

If you have home PV as well as an EV, even better. If the grid goes down, you can charge your vehicle during the day and get power 24/7, indefinitely.

The EV storage option gets you around the fact that the grid might not be up to scratch.

People will still want a car, even if they have solar PV, and it won't be long until petrol vehicles are obsolete.

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Gnads

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Re: biggest coal powered station, 'driving up energy
Reply #74 - Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:33pm

freediver wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:25pm:

Gnads wrote on Mar 10^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2025 at 8:46am:

Quote:

The reason you haven't had a blackout because of them is because while you have coal you can cover any shortfall caused by a failure of Renewables (renewables cannot cover for coal or gas.).

Why couldn't coal fired power stations cover the shortfall when a coal fired station went down?

They did.

They didn't. A lot of QLD went into blackout.

Bullshyte - what is a "lot" of QLD?

I bet I live closer to Callide than you & we didn't lose power.

The grid is maintained so when a unit shut down/failure occurs switching protocols are used.

That's why it's called a grid.

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