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Question: Should preference voting be disabled



« Created by: enviro on: Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:25pm »

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Should preference voting be disabled (Read 11897 times)
enviro
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Should preference voting be disabled
Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:25pm
 
I feel preference voting makes voting a fast. Parties are able to get together and stop minor parties that they don't like from being elected. The Greens lost 3 seats due to this in the last election and One Nation also lost a seat. It really makes a fast of who we vote for.

I voted CDP because they gave preferences to the Liberals but the more i think about it I still would have voted for them because of their immigration policy. Your vote is only a waste if you vote for someone you don't really want to vote for.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #1 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:29pm
 
You mean switching from preferential voting to FPTP? No way. FPTP stops minor parties. Preferential voting levels the playing field for them.

Parties are able to get together and stop minor parties that they don't like from being elected.

No, that is single member electorates. If only one member is elected, it is not going to be the representative of a small minority group.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/electoral-reform.html
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enviro
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #2 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:45pm
 
Freediver I knew you would come back with "It stops minor parties", didn't you read what I wrote?

How can you speak for everyone? We are all individuals and I believe the people who vote for minor parties today would keep their vote the same way as their parties have more of an opportunity to picking up a seat. Take away preferences and you take away 30% of the vote for the two major parties. After the first election people would see this then their would be a flood for minor parties.

Your argument has been going around since Menzies. The argument itself is crap just to keep the two major parties as a monopoly.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #3 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:56pm
 
I think we should wipe the preference system as well.  In the last Federal Election the Greens got twice as many primary votes as the Nationals - yet the Nationals got all the liberal preferences and so got extra seats in the lower house, which should have gone to the Greens.

Look at Family First and that illiterate Fielding - he got the balance of power in the Senate on a minority number of votes.

It certainly hasn't been a level playing field for the Greens.  In some electorates in the State election they got up to 40% of the primary vote - yet missed out on seats because of the preferences.

It's very unfair.

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #4 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:59pm
 
Take away preferences and you take away 30% of the vote for the two major parties.

No you don't. Many people would vote strategically for the major parties. Even if you did take away 30%, that's still 70% for the major parties and 30% for all the minor parties to share, which still means they don't get elected. The only difference then is that the major parties do not court the preferences of the minor parties.

After the first election people would see this then their would be a flood for minor parties.

There would be fewer minor parties and they would get far less of the vote. That is what happens in reality. Global experience backs me up on this.

The argument itself is crap just to keep the two major parties as a monopoly.

The two parties do not have a monopoly. The minor parties hold considerably power in Australia compared to places without preferential voting like the US. Abolishing preferential voting creates a two party duopoly.

Your argument has been going around since Menzies.

It has been going around since preferential voting was first promoted and adopted. It is going around in countries that don't have preferential voting yet, because they are stuck with unfair voting systems.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #5 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 8:02pm
 
In the last Federal Election the Greens got twice as many primary votes as the Nationals - yet the Nationals got all the liberal preferences and so got extra seats in the lower house, which should have gone to the Greens.

That is because the National's vote is concentrated, not because of preferential voting. Getting rid of preferential voting would not change that.

In some electorates in the State election they got up to 40% of the primary vote - yet missed out on seats because of the preferences.

For example?
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enviro
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #6 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 8:18pm
 
Read Wikipedia on Australian Elections and look at the breakdown before preferences.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #7 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 8:23pm
 
Link please? And the name of the electorate. It's rude to make people go looking for your sources.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #8 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 8:27pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:59pm:
Take away preferences and you take away 30% of the vote for the two major parties.

No you don't. Many people would vote strategically for the major parties. Even if you did take away 30%, that's still 70% for the major parties and 30% for all the minor parties to share, which still means they don't get elected. The only difference then is that the major parties do not court the preferences of the minor parties.


Liberal 30%
Labour 40%
Greens 22%
One Nation 8%

as an example.

I think once people see another party closing the gap they will also see that their vote wont be wasted by voting for a party that really has their issues at heart.

Eventually we would probably see;
Liberal 18%
Labour 22%
Greens 21%
Democrats 16%
One Nation 13%
Enviro Party 10%

As an example.

Your argument is based on assumption and so is mine. People have been brainwashed to believe that 2 party's is it. Any smaller party is generally ganged up on by both majors. This is what taking away preference voting will stop. The two major parties have a monopoly on power over this country.

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #9 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 8:29pm
 
Consider me rude but Zoso placed it on another thread which I had presumed you read as you were in the debate.
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It gives
Reply #10 - Apr 19th, 2007 at 9:31pm
 
the most preferred candidate.

Sort of the most popular overall.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #11 - Apr 20th, 2007 at 6:15am
 
enviro wrote on Apr 19th, 2007 at 7:25pm:
I feel preference voting makes voting a fast.


Do you mean farce? Or are you saying that you are fasting from voting until the party you like has a chance of holding the balance of power?   Undecided
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #12 - Apr 20th, 2007 at 6:32am
 
enviro wrote on Apr 19th, 2007 at 8:27pm:
Liberal 18%
Labour 22%
Greens 21%
Democrats 16%
One Nation 13%
Enviro Party 10%



Where did the National Party disappear to?

I cant ever see the Greens gain 21% of the vote, it was around 7% in the last election. If anything, they will go south, just like the Democrats, because the major parties will hijack their policy. Also, the environment will become a larger issue in future elections (perhaps the prime issue) therefore the major parties will continue to "green up".

All other parties gained about 1 or 2% of the primary vote last time around, so how will they get enough traction and reach double digits?

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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #13 - Apr 20th, 2007 at 11:51am
 
Liberal 30%
Labour 40%
Greens 22%
One Nation 8%


Maybe I missed the point. I thought you were arguing that the greens 'deserved' to win and lost because of preferences.

Eventually we would probably see;
Liberal 18%
Labour 22%
Greens 21%
Democrats 16%
One Nation 13%
Enviro Party 10%


That is not how it pans out overseas and it doesn't make sense. If you take away the right of greens or one nation supporters to choose between Labor and Liberal, that makes them less likely to vote for the minor party, not more.

Your argument is based on assumption and so is mine.

Mine is based on reason and backed up with experience. Yours is based on assumption.

Consider me rude but Zoso placed it on another thread which I had presumed you read as you were in the debate.

I don't think that example backed up your argument either. But I am very glad now I didn't bother looking for it as you suggested.

I cant ever see the Greens gain 21% of the vote, it was around 7% in the last election.

In some electorates they get that.

If anything, they will go south, just like the Democrats, because the major parties will hijack their policy.

Fine by me. I care about policy, not politicians.
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Re: Should preference voting be disabled
Reply #14 - Apr 20th, 2007 at 3:35pm
 
Preference voting should be scrapped... and compulsory voting should be scrapped. The two-party system needs to be scrapped... big time. Too much of stranglehold over the country.

These two so-called different parties are what you'd call 'catch all parties.'
They only do what they have to to get votes. Other than power... they couldn't gve a rats about what the average Aussie thinks.
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