Australian Politics Forum - AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.

Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #60 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:23am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 12:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:52am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:44am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

Like I've been consistently saying, our public debt levels have been grossly exaggerated.

By how much?

80% of GDP is a common benchmark. However, I certainly wouldn't want to even approach the zone where we are susceptible to self reinforcing cycles.

We have three AAA ratings because we are miles away from this point.

You made a statement that public debt is grossly exaggerated

You won't give the numbers in real term but now you are saying it's been exaggerated by 80%

So you are accusing who of exaggerating the public debt level by 80%?

Are your comprehension skills really that poor, Maqqa.

You said public debt was exaggerated

By how much?

For example:

If the debt level was $300B and people are reporting it as $600B then the debt levels have been exaggerated by 100%

So based on this - your assertion is debt levels' been exaggerated by 80% ie you are claiming that people are saying the current debt level is $540B

Show me proof where this exaggeration is reported

bump for MOTR

you made a claim the debt level is exaggerated

show us where this exaggerated debt level you are harping on about

bump for MOTR

bump for MOTR

you made a claim the debt level is exaggerated

show us where this exaggerated debt level you are harping on about

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #61 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:28am

red baron wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:16am:

The AAA rating for Australia, came in spite of the Labor Government and certainly not because of it.

With respect to the Fitch rating I beg to differ.

Firstly, the current government's willingness to run countercyclical policies in the face of external difficulties is clearly identified as a positive.

And, secondly, the current government commitment to fiscal consolidation is also recognised.

A government that was hell bent on pursuing austerity measures is more likely to have taken us into recession and thrown the budget into a cyclical deficit.

Are you seriously suggesting our government was in a position to pay down debt without some serious economic consequences.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #62 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:29am

So why am I pursuing MOTR over this issue?

Lefties have continued to try and justify Swannie's incompetence

First it was a measure against OECD countries

Then they tried to measure it against the Budget

Now they want to say that the debt level is exaggerated.

When confronted - they try to weasel their way out of it by accusing me of being obtuse!!!

Facts are
(1) 2007 net debt = ZERO
(2) 2013 net debt = $300B

There's nothing exaggerated by this

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #63 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:37am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:23am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 12:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:52am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:47am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:44am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

Like I've been consistently saying, our public debt levels have been grossly exaggerated.

By how much?

80% of GDP is a common benchmark. However, I certainly wouldn't want to even approach the zone where we are susceptible to self reinforcing cycles.

We have three AAA ratings because we are miles away from this point.

You made a statement that public debt is grossly exaggerated

You won't give the numbers in real term but now you are saying it's been exaggerated by 80%

So you are accusing who of exaggerating the public debt level by 80%?

Are your comprehension skills really that poor, Maqqa.

You said public debt was exaggerated

By how much?

For example:

If the debt level was $300B and people are reporting it as $600B then the debt levels have been exaggerated by 100%

So based on this - your assertion is debt levels' been exaggerated by 80% ie you are claiming that people are saying the current debt level is $540B

Show me proof where this exaggeration is reported

bump for MOTR

you made a claim the debt level is exaggerated

show us where this exaggerated debt level you are harping on about

bump for MOTR

bump for MOTR

you made a claim the debt level is exaggerated

show us where this exaggerated debt level you are harping on about

Do you need pictures, Maqqa.

Net government debt is running at about 10% of GDP. Interest payments at about 0.5% of GDP, well below the average for the last 40 years. To advocate the need for austerity measures in response to our low levels of debt is exaggerating the problem and putting at risk our continued economic prosperity.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #64 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:42am

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:37am:

Do you need pictures, Maqqa.

Net government debt is running at about 10% of GDP. Interest payments at about 0.5% of GDP, well below the average for the last 40 years. To advocate the need for austerity measures in response to our low levels of debt is exaggerating the problem and putting at risk our continued economic prosperity.

You said debt levels are exaggerated - then you quote some 80% figures

So show me where the $300B debt level have been exaggerated!!

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #65 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:50am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:42am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:37am:

Do you need pictures, Maqqa.

Net government debt is running at about 10% of GDP. Interest payments at about 0.5% of GDP, well below the average for the last 40 years. To advocate the need for austerity measures in response to our low levels of debt is exaggerating the problem and putting at risk our continued economic prosperity.

You said debt levels are exaggerated - then you quote some 80% figures

So show me where the $300B debt level have been exaggerated!!

I'm clearly saying the consequences of this level of debt are being exaggerated. The large number might blow the ability of your mind to think rationally, but some of us have been educated to have a deeper understanding of the issue.

How about you read a couple of economic papers on the issue.

How about we start with baby steps, Maqqa. Is government debt a problem per se. And if it is, what policy response would you have implemented in response to the GFC.

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« Last Edit: Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:03am by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Carlsbad, CA
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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #66 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:11am

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 12:59pm:

Net debt to GDP

9.7% in 2007
22.9% in 2012

What net debt are you talking about.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst10-04.htm

You're certainly talking about a different measure to us.

Australia Government Debt To GDP averaged 19.9 Percent reaching an all time high of 31.7 Percent in December of 1994 and a record low of 9.7 Percent in December of 2007.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-debt-to-gdp

Note the large increase since the Labor Party took power..

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australia-government-debt-to-gdp.png (17 KB | 39 )

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #67 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:11am .
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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #68 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:14am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:11am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 12:59pm:

Net debt to GDP

9.7% in 2007
22.9% in 2012

What net debt are you talking about.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst10-04.htm

You're certainly talking about a different measure to us.

Australia Government Debt To GDP averaged 19.9 Percent reaching an all time high of 31.7 Percent in December of 1994 and a record low of 9.7 Percent in December of 2007.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-debt-to-gdp

Note the large increase since the Labor Party took power..

So you're not talking about net debt, you want to talk about gross debt. Does that mean Howard didn't really get us out of debt?

So did you deliberately try and exaggerate the amount of net debt, the best measure of the government's overall indebtedness, in this post, or were you simply confused.

Perhaps since you came first in Economics, you can explain to us why you think we should be looking at gross debt rather than net debt when we attempt to get a handle on our overall level of indebtedness.

Perhaps you could start by explaining the difference.

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« Last Edit: Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:29am by MOTR »

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #69 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:21am Yes, its gross debt. The trend is exactly the same when comparing the gross and net, merely differing % figures.
Back to top	Chart2_Australian_government_debt_timeseries.jpg (141 KB \| ) Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #70 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:21am .
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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

Posts: 16000

Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #71 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:27am

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:50am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:42am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:37am:

Do you need pictures, Maqqa.

Net government debt is running at about 10% of GDP. Interest payments at about 0.5% of GDP, well below the average for the last 40 years. To advocate the need for austerity measures in response to our low levels of debt is exaggerating the problem and putting at risk our continued economic prosperity.

You said debt levels are exaggerated - then you quote some 80% figures

So show me where the $300B debt level have been exaggerated!!

I'm clearly saying the consequences of this level of debt are being exaggerated. The large number might blow the ability of your mind to think rationally, but some of us have been educated to have a deeper understanding of the issue.

How about you read a couple of economic papers on the issue.

How about we start with baby steps, Maqqa. Is government debt a problem per se. And if it is, what policy response would you have implemented in response to the GFC.

Clearly you DID NOT say that

There's a difference in saying the impact of the debt level is exaggerated than to say the debt level is exaggerated

And it is clear you said the debt level is exaggerated

You may back down now MOTR

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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MOTR

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Posts: 6646

Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #72 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:31am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:27am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:50am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:42am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 8:37am:

Do you need pictures, Maqqa.

Net government debt is running at about 10% of GDP. Interest payments at about 0.5% of GDP, well below the average for the last 40 years. To advocate the need for austerity measures in response to our low levels of debt is exaggerating the problem and putting at risk our continued economic prosperity.

You said debt levels are exaggerated - then you quote some 80% figures

So show me where the $300B debt level have been exaggerated!!

I'm clearly saying the consequences of this level of debt are being exaggerated. The large number might blow the ability of your mind to think rationally, but some of us have been educated to have a deeper understanding of the issue.

How about you read a couple of economic papers on the issue.

How about we start with baby steps, Maqqa. Is government debt a problem per se. And if it is, what policy response would you have implemented in response to the GFC.

Clearly you DID NOT say that

There's a difference in saying the impact of the debt level is exaggerated than to say the debt level is exaggerated

And it is clear you said the debt level is exaggerated

You may back down now MOTR

If you had of provided the wrong figures I would have said as such.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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MOTR

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Posts: 6646

Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #73 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:32am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:11am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 1:07pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 12:59pm:

Net debt to GDP

9.7% in 2007
22.9% in 2012

What net debt are you talking about.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst10-04.htm

You're certainly talking about a different measure to us.

Australia Government Debt To GDP averaged 19.9 Percent reaching an all time high of 31.7 Percent in December of 1994 and a record low of 9.7 Percent in December of 2007.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/government-debt-to-gdp

Note the large increase since the Labor Party took power..

So you're not talking about net debt, you want to talk about gross debt. Does that mean Howard didn't really get us out of debt?

So did you deliberately try and exaggerate the amount of net debt, the best measure of the government's overall indebtedness, in this post, or were you simply confused.

Perhaps since you came first in Economics, you can explain to us why you think we should be looking at gross debt rather than net debt when we attempt to get a handle on our overall level of indebtedness.

Perhaps you could start by explaining the difference.

Back to top

Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #74 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:33am Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:31am: MOTR wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm: Like I've been consistently saying, our public debt levels have been grossly exaggerated. By how much? bump for MOTR you may back down now MOTR
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