Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Poll Poll
Question: Will there be a conviction?

Yes    
  3 (14.3%)
No    
  17 (81.0%)
Not sure    
  1 (4.8%)




Total votes: 21
« Created by: Lisa Jones on: Oct 22nd, 2022 at 7:49am »

Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 ... 101
Send Topic Print
Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins (Read 35875 times)
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38506
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #180 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:41pm
 
Setanta wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 6:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 6:04pm:
Setanta wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 5:20pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 5:15pm:
Not by itself.


Yet that is when guilt was cemented as far as you are concerned?


Yes.  Ferfuqsake, how dumb are people?


Me, whether guilty or innocent, either way you want to get found innocent, yeah?, would probably follow what I was councelled to, to achieve that outcome. I don't know that you can hinge the rest of his life on that cementing his guilt.


No Lawyer is gonna 'councel' you one way or the other.  They are going to give you the pros and the cons either way, and not make the selection for you.

As I said, that will be in detailed writing and that writing will not have a recommendation either way.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 83509
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #181 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:45pm
 
...


I rest my case .....................
Back to top
« Last Edit: Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:57pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 83509
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #182 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:49pm
 
Johnnie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 6:30pm:
What about that dress she wore on the night without panties! which she said she hid under her bed because of shame and said she never wore again untill a photo emerged of her wearing it 2 weeks later and probably commando style, she forgot about that, Reynolds might have been right all along calling her a "lying cow" consider your verdict.

Her ex bosses in Reynolds and Cash have not given her any character references, they bagged her.



Well - that's as fine a reference as anyone could get...

Well - Reynolds calling her a lying cow was spontaneous.... not rehearsed... clearly she was affronted at what St Brittany was starting to say.... which, I will remind you again... changed during the course of the intervening years....

I can assure you that a traumatic event is never forgotten in any detail......... no single move in it is forgotten..... not a word.....
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 83509
Proud pre-1850's NO Voter
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #183 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:52pm
 
Well - it seems the defence felt that it had made enough holes in Brittany's evidence to render any further evidence moot.....

Not guilty or a hung jury..... High Court link?  Superceded.... you may NOT draw inferences from the silence of the defendant...... he is essentially a deaf mute .... that's why he has ear-pieces and mouth-pieces ...
Back to top
 

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
AusGeoff
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Sage of Gippsland

Posts: 5999
Victoria
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #184 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 8:10pm
 
Today's report from The Guardian, 19 October.  (excerpted)

I've underlined what I consider salient points.

Lawyers for accused rapist Bruce Lehrmann have told the court Brittany Higgins
has been “caught out” making up evidence, including about a bruise she says she
sustained during the alleged attack, and has possibly “reconstructed events to
the point that she now genuinely believes them
”.

The court has also previously heard that Higgins told police that she had been to
see a doctor in the south of Canberra within two weeks of the rape and was awaiting
test results. Police could find no record of her attending such an appointment.

The defence has suggested that Higgins made up the allegations after being found
in Reynolds’ office naked by parliament security. The incident, on the defence’s
case, left her fearing for her dream job. Once her job was secure, the defence says,
she told police in 2019 that she was no longer interested in pursuing the complaint
.

[The defence] suggested Higgins was motivated by a book deal when she reinstated
her complaint in 2021. The advance on the book deal was worth $325,000, the
court has heard.

[The defence] said there was no reliable evidence that had been presented by the
prosecution to prove the alleged rape occurred.  There was no DNA evidence and no
contemporaneous medical appointment
.

“There is no evidence other than Ms Higgins and the extent to which her subsequent
statements, demeanor to other people, assists you in accepting what she says".

“We’ve had, in [the defence's] submission, a reasonable, plausible explanation as to
why in 2019 she might have raised a false complaint, and then not go through with
it.”
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Aussie
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 38506
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #185 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 8:35pm
 
Roll Eyes

All the Defence assertions.  How unsurprising.

What did the Defence say about the accused's three different versions of why he went to the Suite so late at night?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Captain Nemo
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9760
Melbourne
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #186 - Oct 19th, 2022 at 10:43pm
 
With no third party witness and no physical evidence, it would be astonishing for the jury to come back with a guilty verdict as there must be an element of doubt given the lack of proof.







Back to top
 

The 2025 election could be a shocker.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35169
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #187 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:22am
 
AusGeoff wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 7:17pm:
mothra wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 5:32am:
What continues to break my heart is that even in this day and, if a woman does not submit to immediate forensic examination post rape, she has no evidence.

The only "evidence" Higgins has is her own claim.  In actuality then, zero evidence.


Well, there's also the evidence of her being naked and disorientated, the fact she was alone, the fact of where she was, the facts of her co-workers testimonials to her mental state immediately after, the fact that she made several reports .. etc.

But don't let facts get in the way, Geoff. You've an axe to grind.

mothra wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 5:32am:
And so accusations of rape come down to "he said/she said".

Agreed.  And exactly as I said earlier in this thread.

[/quote]

Congratulations.

Now, can you see how this unfavourably represents women?

mothra wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 5:32am:
So little compassion for a person who is undeniably in a state of shock after being horrifically violated.

You don't know—nor do any of us know—that Higgins was "horrifically violated".
That's for the jury to determine.  And your verbal histrionics further devalue your opinion.
[/quote]

I said "a person", not Higgins. I said this because it absolutely disgusts me that a person who is raped is expected to do anything at all before people like you will even consider them.

Please, try to imagine being horiffically violated. Imagine yourself wanting to submit to an medical examination and police interrogation immediately afterwards.

So on. Imagine it.

I'm sincerely hoping that you can.


mothra wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 5:32am:
Shame on the lot of you. You utterly sicken me.

Just as your judgmental, patronising superiority offends us.


[/quote]

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission Geoff.

And it is your judgement echoing in the halls, not mine. All i asked was for people to consider how a rape victim might feel.

And man didn't you lot get defensive about it.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #188 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:27am
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 6:04pm:
Setanta wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 5:20pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 5:15pm:
Not by itself.


Yet that is when guilt was cemented as far as you are concerned?


Yes.  Ferfuqsake, how dumb are people?

Here I am sitting observing, just like the Jury but they are hearing it, reading that she has SWORN on OATH that he raped her.  So....I (they) look around and say.  'So, what does he say?'

The answer is...at the end of the Prosecution case... he told the Cops he did nothing...nada...did not do it.  Not on oath.

So I says to myself (and the Jury can do the same)....will he get in the Box and SWEAR ON OATH he did not do it.  Will he allow himself to be cross examined so that he can explain why he gave THREE different versions.

(This is what actually happens.)

At the end of the Prosecution case, the Judge asks the Defence Counsel if they propose to call evidence.  That happened in this case.

I was waiting with bated breath to hear the answer, as the Jury would have been.

The answer was, 'No.'

So........what am I left with.  What is the Jury left with to consider.

On the one hand, I, they have the SWORN evidence of Higgins who was in the box before them, and they saw her talk and they saw her answer questions UNDER OATH including being cross-examined.  They had a first hand opportunity to evaluate her in all respects

On the other hand, I, they, have seen a video of the accused being questioned by the Coppers at the Cop Shop....he NOT under oath, and he NOT cross-examined.  He likely had a Lawyer by his side at the time also but I am conjecturing there.  Point is....he could and did say whatever he liked to Coppers without repercussion and under no pressure of a Court Room and the presence of a Judge and a Jury watching him talk.

So.....here we are, the Jury, tossing things up.....who do I believe, her or him.

ONE factor that is taken into account is that he never fronted the Jury in the box, she did.  Sworn and tested testimony v untested gibber to a Copper.

Take your pick.

One of the cons in not calling evidence, including from the accused is....that Defence Counsel gets second last shot at talking to the Jury.  Crown goes first, Defence second and then the 13th Juror.

If the Defence calls evidence, Defence goes first, then Crown, then 13th Juror.

There is an advantage in going second and ferfuqsake I do hope I don't have to explain that...or do I?

So....why did I decide I was happy to convict beyond reasonable doubt?

1.  He gave three different versions about why he had to go to PHouse that night.  That is telling.  If there was truth being told, there is ONE reason, or maybe two but both reasons given at the same time, not three different reasons given at three different times.

2.  She swore he raped her.

3.  That is pretty good stuff indicating guilt.

4.  So......my concerns have to reasonably vanish if he gets in the Box and (a) denies he touched her and (b) also explains why there are THREE different reasons for being at the alleged crime scene.  I expected that an innocent man would have no issue doing that.   He failed my litmus test on who is telling the truth.


Have you considered the fact that he too was too drunk to know wtf he did that night?
Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35169
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #189 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:27am
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 9:01am:
mothra wrote on Oct 18th, 2022 at 5:32am:
What continues to break my heart is that even in this day and, if a woman does not submit to immediate forensic examination post rape, she has no evidence.

And so accusations of rape come down to "he said/she said".

So little compassion for a person who is undeniably in a state of shock after being horrifically violated. So little understanding of what that might do to a person.

And just look! When a person comes forward, what do they meet?

Shame on the lot of you. You utterly sicken me.


Well, fuq you very much, too!


Sorry Aussie. You got caught in my broad sweep. Not intended.

Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #190 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:29am
 
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 7:41pm:
Setanta wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 6:56pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 6:04pm:
Setanta wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 5:20pm:
Aussie wrote on Oct 19th, 2022 at 5:15pm:
Not by itself.


Yet that is when guilt was cemented as far as you are concerned?


Yes.  Ferfuqsake, how dumb are people?


Me, whether guilty or innocent, either way you want to get found innocent, yeah?, would probably follow what I was councelled to, to achieve that outcome. I don't know that you can hinge the rest of his life on that cementing his guilt.


No Lawyer is gonna 'councel' you one way or the other.  They are going to give you the pros and the cons either way, and not make the selection for you.

As I said, that will be in detailed writing and that writing will not have a recommendation either way.


Aussie : Some lawyers do tell you what THEY would be doing under the same set of circumstances if they were in your shoes. Some actually do this during private conversations btwn lawyer and client. That's essentially making a recommendation.

Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35169
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #191 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:30am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:27am:
Have you considered the fact that he too was too drunk to know wtf he did that night?



He wasn't found naked in an abandoned office.

He had the wherewithal to vacate the premises, leaving a naked woman behind coincidentally.

So i suppose he still had his faculties, no?

Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
Gordon
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 20465
Gordon
Gender: male
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #192 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:39am
 
2 drunks bumped uglies.
1 drunk regretted it.
Back to top
 

IBI
 
IP Logged
 
Lisa Jones
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 39047
Sydney
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #193 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:48am
 
mothra wrote on Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:30am:
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:27am:
Have you considered the fact that he too was too drunk to know wtf he did that night?



He wasn't found naked in an abandoned office.

He had the wherewithal to vacate the premises, leaving a naked woman behind coincidentally.

So i suppose he still had his faculties, no?




My ex husband (who was a lawyer) could drink 10 beers and a few glasses of wine at work functions and STILL walk. That was in his 30's and 40's. I would be tipsy after 1 glass of wine. So I did the right thing to ensure my safety and STOPPED after that 1 glass.

An observation: Men seem to have more tolerance to alcohol in general from what I have seen. It MAY be due to their body being so used to drinking. I don't know.

In all honesty I think this case will NOT end in Brittany Higgins' favour.

I don't think her version of events IS the version of events. She was too drunk to know/recall. I'm surprised she was able to swear an oath without stuffing up the finer details of what happened given her state of awareness.

I think BOTH were drunk. One could walk away and 1 couldn't. And that had lots to do with their body being able to tolerate alcohol intake.

The fact that Brittany kept drinking shows me she was not able to exercise self control. And the consequences of her decision to continue drinking was that she placed herself in a potentially dangerous situation.

The same may be said of the guy.

I posted earlier in this topic about these work related functions. They are the cause of lots of problems IF those organising them don't set the rules right in the first place.

Conclusion :

1. I think the guy will be found not guilty.

2. Brittany should have sued those who organised the event.









Back to top
 

If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)
 
IP Logged
 
mothra
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 35169
Gender: female
Re: Trial of Brittany Higgins's alleged rapist begins
Reply #194 - Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:53am
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Oct 20th, 2022 at 7:48am:
The fact that Brittany kept drinking shows me she was not able to exercise self control. And the consequences of her decision to continue drinking was that she placed herself in a potentially dangerous situation.







"Placed herself in a potentially dangerous situation".

At Parliament House.

And of course Your Honour, it matters what she was wearing and how much she had to drink.

You know Lisa, these arguments from the males on here are odious enough but i consider it treachery to read them from another woman.

I can only imagine that woman is sheltered beyond normalcy.
Back to top
 

If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 ... 101
Send Topic Print