freediver wrote on Oct 30^th, 2023 at 8:42pm:


I have been hearing this idiocy from various anti semitic groups for about 20 years now - that Israel is responsible for the residents of the Gaza strip and the west bank because they are citizens of Israel. Was it always just confusion over the fact that there are plenty of local Muslims living in Israel as citizens who enjoy more rights and freedoms than Muslims in any other middle eastern country?

Re Freediver

My senario was to question what happens if Israel were to be established in Australia, under the Kimberly plan.  If any critism exist, it is towards the government, not the actual people.   I believe, that in any conflict, it is the politicians who benefits while the people suffers.   As I mentioned before, Israel cannot be considered a liberal democracy.   On Israel land, including the occupied territory, there are 7.3 million Jewish people, and 7.5 million palestinians.  Those 7.5 million Palestinians have no right, and are living in squalors.  That is not actions of a liberal democracy.  An UN report prepared in 2018, specified clearly that:

For the past 54 years, Israeli authorities have facilitated the transfer of Jewish Israelis to the OPT and granted them a superior status under the law as compared to Palestinians living in the same territory when it comes to civil rights, access to land, and freedom to move, build, and confer residency rights to close relatives. While Palestinians have a limited degree of self-rule in parts of the OPT, Israel retains primary control over borders, airspace, the movement of people and goods, security, and the registry of the entire population, which in turn dictates such matters as legal status and eligibility to receive identity cards.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

I am sorry Freediver, but your dreams of liberal democratic Israel does not exist for everyone. 

Israel has occupied these lands since the 1940s and 50s

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:04am:


This way.

https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution

tickleandrose wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:07am:

Some 'genocide, eh?

About 6.8 million Jewish Israelis and 6.8 million Palestinians live today between the Mediterranean Sea and Jordan River, an area encompassing Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory (OPT

freediver wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 8:26am:


Its okay Freediver, just get to your point.   

Frank wrote on Nov 12^th, 2023 at 9:48am:

The reason is obvious.

Hamas are not just fighters, they consider themselves martyrs - they value their own lives only insofar as they will ultimately die for their cause. The deaths of innocent Muslims are of little concern when, by their beliefs, those innocents are also martyrs.

They planned this attack to be so egregious it would assault the sensibilities of Israelis such that it would overwhelm any Israeli reserve in the ferocity of its retaliation.

On this, they 'succeeded' beyond their wildest expectations and, I'd bet, will become victims of their own 'success'.

I'm betting both the Shia and Sunni states are realising that this 'success' has threatened all their respective regimes with future conflicts and retaliation and, possibly, overthrow - particularly Syria, Iran and Yemen - if they do not or cannot help steer this to a conclusion - whatever a conclusion would actually look like.